[L4DD13]

I was watching First Contact on Saturday and i never realised how many Inconsitencies, Plotholes, Problems, etc were in the movie.

Has anyone else noticed them?


Cheers.
Michael

[aussie trek mom]

Yessss i have noticed a few lol. But i dont care it is one of my favourite star trek movies and i cant watch it over and over again <grin>.

[trek_dude]

I noticed a few plotholes but to honbest it doesn't bother me,


I noticed a few plotholes but to honest it doesn't bother me, First Contact is and always will be my favorite trek movie

[Captain_Hair]

Why don't you tell us about your inconsistencies and plotholes?

[carolinsche]

I know what you mean, but it's still my favourite Star Trek movie.

Some of the ones I can think of:
- If the Borg can time travel so easily why not just jump back in time before they ever reach the Earth then go to Earth and take it over? Why not just travel back in time and assimilate all of the worlds before they had technology?
- How did the Enterprise get back to their own century?
- Would the Vulcan ship, with their technology, not have noticed the Enterprise in orbit?

...

I think the worst one is actually in Nemesis - the infamous 'bottomless pit' in the scene of Riker's fight. Where on the Enterprise is that supposed to be??

[trek_dude]

carolinsche, on Feb 7 2006, 10:51 AM, said:

- If the Borg can time travel so easily why not just jump back in time before they ever reach the Earth then go to Earth and take it over? Why not just travel back in time and assimilate all of the worlds before they had technology?

you have a good point there, but if they did that there would be no movie

Quote

- How did the Enterprise get back to their own century?

thye used the main deflector to generate the temprorol vortex the borg used

Quote

I think the worst one is actually in Nemesis - the infamous 'bottomless pit' in the scene of Riker's fight. Where on the Enterprise is that supposed to be??

i think that was one of the Jefferies tubes

[WeatherManNX01]

carolinsche, on Feb 7 2006, 05:51 AM, said:

-Some of the ones I can think of:
- If the Borg can time travel so easily why not just jump back in time before they ever reach the Earth then go to Earth and take it over? Why not just travel back in time and assimilate all of the worlds before they had technology?
- How did the Enterprise get back to their own century?
- Would the Vulcan ship, with their technology, not have noticed the Enterprise in orbit?

...

I think the worst one is actually in Nemesis - the infamous 'bottomless pit' in the scene of Riker's fight. Where on the Enterprise is that supposed to be??

Yup.

They duplicated what the Borg ship did. I forget what it was; I'd have to watch it again.

No, because remember they hid the ship behind the moon.

I've often wondered about that. It was supposed to be on deck 29 (non-existent). My theory is that they actually meant deck 20 section 9, and the Viceroy fell four decks to a hull breach. Nemesis is still my favorite, though.

[Captain_Hair]

My favorite mistake from First Contact is the most memorable of lines...

"They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back."
Uhm... when did the Borg assimilate Federation worlds? Or how about invading space?

Towards the end when Picard returns to Engineering. He just pushes a button and walks right in. Why didn't you do that before? Although I do like the little touch of all the drones watching him, as if they recognized Locutus.

[carolinsche]

About the Enterprise hiding behind the moon... I think that Vulcan technology / long range sensors or whatever else would allow them to detect a ship that size. But I guess I'll never know for sure, unless I get my hands on a Vulcan ship. LOL.

[Captain_Hair]

carolinsche, on Feb 20 2006, 08:21 AM, said:

About the Enterprise hiding behind the moon... I think that Vulcan technology / long range sensors or whatever else would allow them to detect a ship that size. But I guess I'll never know for sure, unless I get my hands on a Vulcan ship. LOL.

It's not that they hid behind the moon... they said that "the moon's gravitational field hid our warp field" or something like that...

Oh, another nitpick. "I thought you said these were holographic bullets?" When did he say that?

[Shodar]

Captain Hair, on Feb 7 2006, 08:57 AM, said:

My favorite mistake from First Contact is the most memorable of lines...

"They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back."
Uhm... when did the Borg assimilate Federation worlds? Or how about invading space?

well, where's Wolf359? We know the federation lost that battle at least in some respects right? And fell back ;)So if that was anywhere close to federation space, it seems logical to assume that some worlds had been assimilated.

Captain Hair, on Feb 7 2006, 08:57 AM, said:

Towards the end when Picard returns to Engineering. He just pushes a button and walks right in. Why didn't you do that before? Although I do like the little touch of all the drones watching him, as if they recognized Locutus.

I always thought the Borg let him in. When he was being Picard, they would have kept everything locked up, but when he showed up aone as Locutus, the Borg Queen wanted to let him in and disengaged the locks.

Captain_Hair, on Feb 20 2006, 06:56 AM, said:

Oh, another nitpick. "I thought you said these were holographic bullets?" When did he say that?

He told her everything on the holodeck was holographic. He didn't need to specifically say: "These bullets are holographic"

[Captain_Hair]

Sho'Dar, on Feb 20 2006, 12:14 PM, said:

well, where's Wolf359? We know the federation lost that battle at least in some respects right? And fell back ;)So if that was anywhere close to federation space, it seems logical to assume that some worlds had been assimilated.

Wolf 359 is rather close to Earth (in reality). If worlds were assimilated, why didn't we hear about them? Wouldn't that slow the Borg down?

Sho'Dar, on Feb 20 2006, 12:14 PM, said:

He told her everything on the holodeck was holographic. He didn't need to specifically say: "These bullets are holographic"

But when did he say that it was a holodeck? All he said was "Perhaps something in satin?" *zshouin* Holodecky goodness.

[Shodar]

Captain_Hair, on Feb 20 2006, 09:21 AM, said:

But when did he say that it was a holodeck? All he said was "Perhaps something in satin?" *zshouin* Holodecky goodness.

I thought he gave some brief explanation while they were walking/dancing. But maybe not. It's been a few years since i actually watched FC

[Captain_Hair]

Sho'Dar, on Feb 20 2006, 12:26 PM, said:

I thought he gave some brief explanation while they were walking/dancing. But maybe not. It's been a few years since i actually watched FC

Nope. "I need to speak to Nicky the Nose."
"The Nose? He hasn't been here in weeks."
*finger snap*
"Wrong chapter!"
*flying Neelix*
"Computer, Chapter 13."
*dancers appear*
"No no, don't look at them! Look at me, act natural."

No mention of holography until after he's killed the drones.

[WeatherManNX01]

Captain Hair, on Feb 7 2006, 11:57 AM, said:

My favorite mistake from First Contact is the most memorable of lines...

"They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back."
Uhm... when did the Borg assimilate Federation worlds? Or how about invading space?

Towards the end when Picard returns to Engineering. He just pushes a button and walks right in. Why didn't you do that before? Although I do like the little touch of all the drones watching him, as if they recognized Locutus.

There were those colonies along the neutral zone in the early seasons of TNG. Remember they initially thought it was the Romulans, but it wasn't. Then in Best of Both Worlds there's that colony that was destroyed.

I think the Queen knew he was coming and let him in.

Captain_Hair, on Feb 20 2006, 09:56 AM, said:

Oh, another nitpick. "I thought you said these were holographic bullets?" When did he say that?

We didn't actually hear him say that, but that doesn't mean he didn't. There's that gap between "something in Satin" and the Borg breaking in. He probably explained it to her when she suddenly found herself wearing a satin dress.

Sho'Dar, on Feb 20 2006, 12:14 PM, said:

well, where's Wolf359? We know the federation lost that battle at least in some respects right? And fell back ;)So if that was anywhere close to federation space, it seems logical to assume that some worlds had been assimilated.

I always thought the Borg let him in. When he was being Picard, they would have kept everything locked up, but when he showed up aone as Locutus, the Borg Queen wanted to let him in and disengaged the locks.

He told her everything on the holodeck was holographic. He didn't need to specifically say: "These bullets are holographic"

Wolf 359 is about 7ish light years from Earth. It is one of the stars in the constellation Taurus.

Yup.

See above.

Captain_Hair, on Feb 20 2006, 12:21 PM, said:

Wolf 359 is rather close to Earth (in reality). If worlds were assimilated, why didn't we hear about them?

Wouldn't that slow the Borg down?

But when did he say that it was a holodeck? All he said was "Perhaps something in satin?" *zshouin* Holodecky goodness.

Perhaps so as to not frighten people, especially since the Enterprise dealt with the situation and destroyed the cube. And just because we didn't hear about them doesn't mean they didn't. Also, the El Aurian homeworld was assimilated by the Borg. And again, there were those colonies along the neutral zone.

Again, there's that time between "something in satin" and the flying Neelix. And he could have also told her while dancing, particularly in response to the changing of the scene. Remember that there are shots where we can't see or hear what they're saying. He could have told her then, too.

[Captain_Hair]

Assimilate entire worlds. That implies that there are Borg planets sitting in the Federation. There's a difference between scooping up/destroying a colony and assimilating a world.

[WeatherManNX01]

Captain_Hair, on Feb 20 2006, 01:55 PM, said:

Assimilate entire worlds. That implies that there are Borg planets sitting in the Federation. There's a difference between scooping up/destroying a colony and assimilating a world.

There's nothing that says they let the colonies remain there. Perhaps the scooping/destroying was to eliminate evidence/potential information about them, and they take their new drones with them to finish the assimilation process and to get them working in the collective. They wouldn't do much good just lazing around on what's left of their planet.

And the El Aurian homeworld was described as both assimilated and destroyed, which would support this theory.

[Kevbo32]

Speaking of holographic bullets how about this for a plothole. The Borg were able to adapt to 24th century phasers and weapons but were not able to fend off a holographic bullet. I would suppose they weren't adaptable yet to holographic technology yet but if they can use holographic technology to fight the Borg wouldn't that be easier than upgrading their weapons? But then again they would need holographic transmitters all over the place so they can use these holographic weapons.

Also one needs to wonder the Borg can adapt to phasers but what about actual bullets? Does the Borg have the technology to adapt to piercing weapons on their armor and bodies? The bullets aren't energy weapons but I guess somehow the Borg being who they are would find a way to make a force field for that material and we're back to plan A.

[WeatherManNX01]

Kevbo32, on Feb 20 2006, 02:51 PM, said:

Speaking of holographic bullets how about this for a plothole. The Borg were able to adapt to 24th century phasers and weapons but were not able to fend off a holographic bullet. I would suppose they weren't adaptable yet to holographic technology yet but if they can use holographic technology to fight the Borg wouldn't that be easier than upgrading their weapons? But then again they would need holographic transmitters all over the place so they can use these holographic weapons.

Also one needs to wonder the Borg can adapt to phasers but what about actual bullets? Does the Borg have the technology to adapt to piercing weapons on their armor and bodies? The bullets aren't energy weapons but I guess somehow the Borg being who they are would find a way to make a force field for that material and we're back to plan A.

The Borg aparently cannot adapt to bullets. A civilization that uses such weapons would not be considered technologically advanced enough for assimilation, so they wouldn't bother. It stands to reason, then, that they wouldn't adapt; they think they don't need to.

I suspect, however, that if the Borg's opponents (say the Federation) started using guns the Borg would quickly adapt.

[dominion_ruler]

I love First Contact....and I enjoyed the episode of Enterprise dealing with the borg crash from First Contact...but putting the two together makes me head hurt