[JulesLuvsShinzon]

Andorian Brandyman, on 07 September 2010 - 05:03 PM, said:

"My precious country"??? Damn right its precious, tell us how you really feel about us Americans Jules, your tone is quite militant,and alarming.Do you have a Burka.

Well, I totally predicted that response from you. I'm loving your comments about "tone" - did you check yours out before you posted that garbage? Do you think you sound even rational? You speak like a true paranoid and myopic redneck Republican spewing the kind of ignorance and lack of education that provokes wars. How funny that you think I'm a Muslim! I suppose that you think everyone in Britain is a Muslim now because we've apparently rolled over and allowed ourselves to be overcome by a tidal wave of Islam, and every English woman is wearing a burkha. What a total knob you are! Yeah, I've heard all that kind of claptrap before, and it is claptrap, not to say downright insulting considering our brave soldiers are currently risking life and limb tidying up after your illegal war on Iraq and defending the West against Al Quaeda in Afghanistan. Don't you ever read newspapers, or don't they come in large enough print for you?

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Typical ignorant

The ignorance is all on your side Bubba.

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Euro BS attitude and PERSONAL attacks, God save the Queen .THE COUNTRY THAT THE SUN NEVER SET ON,THAT PILLAGE EUROPE, ASIA AND AMERICA,your country's brutal tactics has scorned and killed countless over time.

I'm sorry - "personal attacks"? Are you completely potty not to understand that your entire post is a personal attack? I'm fascinated to know from which wikki you sourced information about the "pillage" we're supposed to have perpetrated on Europe, because that's a new one on me. As for other outrages for which Britain is culpable, I'd like you to point out excatly where I said in any of my posts ever that Britain has a clean sheet in that respect? Besides, I certainly don't require a lecture on my own country's past iniquities from the likes of you, especially since your grasp of even the present day is so tenuous.

Here's some advice for you, you might want to try putting that booze down when you're bashing away at your keyboard because you end up making silly mistakes and looking like you wrote it all in a teeth-gnashing frenzy.

Besides, you should know that whatever the British Empire did in other countries, America has a similar track record, or was slavery only confined to Britain? Is the Ku Klux Klan a British invention? Take a look at your own country's history Bubba, if you can find a kindergarten book that covers it in simple enough language.

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So stop being the poster girl for freedom sweetheart, because you are far from it.

Oh you do give me too much credit when I didn't even make any claims to being that, so clearly I've hit a nerve - which would be something of an achievement with with total dunderhead like yourself. Get yourself a passport and travel - it broadens the mind you see.

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Your supposed expertise on America is laughable at best.

I never claimed to have any prticular expertise, but I clearly know more about your country than you do about mine. Besides, what I know about America comes from far better, smarter, knowledeable and politically savvy Americans than you. I am pleased to count many Americans as my friends, even Republicans, however none of them hail from the kind of myopic, regressive, and paranoid cul-de-sac in which the likes of you fester.

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a big enough radical Muslim problem on your own little island, perhaps you should clean up your own backyard before telling America all the things you don't like about us.

Dear, dear, you really shouldn't believe everything you watch on Fox News. No wonder you're so ignorant about Britain. At least the British people are tackling radicalism (mostly aimed at America I hasten to add) on our shores in ways that are not likely to lead to global armageddon.

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Jules, it was not Christians or Jews that flew planes into the WTC it was radical Muslims, there a big difference

How can you be so utterly stupid? I know the difference between Christians, Jews, and Muslims, do you? Do you actually think I said that anyone other than radical Islamic terrorists were responsible for the terrorist attacks on 9/11. What I actually said in my post, which you should try reading again, was that people of all faiths were killed in 9/11. In fact everyone - apart from you apparently - knows that the casualties were not only Christians. The nature of the terrorist attacks in New York and London were indiscriminate - deliberately so, since the Muslims that got caught up in it and lost their lives in the mayhem the radicals would regard as matryrs.

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mosque has too many fishy people connected to it . Hamilton, here is a little diddy that will clear things up for you about the NYC mosque at ground zero and radical Islam.Make sure you watch the ENTIRE video before you draw ANY conclusions.Don't let the bleeding heart liberal agenda turn us into a socialist country, Obama scam will not work,or the left agenda from across the pond.Jules perhaps you should educate yourself before going off on one of your little anti American tangents.

Hopefully Hamilton will pay you no mind.

YOU seriously need to get an education because you show the kind of dangerous, redneck stupidity and lack of a real education that leads to the kind of paranoia and social unrest that causes wars. It's actually the kind of attitude that would-be dictators love to engender in their subjects prior to establishing a totalitarian regime, because people like you are so gullible because you'll believe anything that serves to feed your own hatred and paranoia.

I'm tempted to laugh at your sterotypical use of "bleeding heart liberal" but actually people like you are not funny, simply dangerous and in need of serious attitude adjustment. You need to get that fluff out of your little Right-Wing 30 watt brain and understand that people like me are not anti-American, only anti Americans like yourself on a mission to make everyone believe that America is backward-facing, paranoid, and dangerous. Fortunately I know better.

EDIT: Sorry Ensign Edwards, I get your point about remaining polite to other posters but such idiocy needs to be dealt with because I feel that this kind of nasty paranoia reflects badly on the rest of rest the members here, especially those residing in the US to whom I send my best wishes on the 9th anniversary of 9/11.

This post has been edited by JulesLuvsShinzon: 11 September 2010 - 10:29 AM

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

sevnson_71, on 09 September 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

Speaking of....

Qu'ran burning cancelled, "Ground Zero mosque" moving?
The Donald wants a stake in cultural center
NY Imam says "what this is I have no idea"...
Fla. pastor claims "he was lied to".

Nothing to see here, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain

Yep. That's exactly the kind of dangerous non-thinking that I'm referring to! What does this unpopular pastor think burning a few holy books will prove?

There really couldn't be an act more deliberately calculated to bring on another terrorist strike.

[sevnson_71]

Hey look at all the attention it garnered him. That like a mewling child is all he wanted, and by damn if our 24 hour news cycle playing it up didn't deliver.

But that is the advantage to our first amendment, it points out the whack-a-doo's before they have a chance to act upon their lack of medication or education. Hopefully between talking to the Imam in Gainesville and supposedly NYC it will enlighten him a little. There is a cure for ignorance but the stricken need to open their minds to it.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

sevnson_71, on 11 September 2010 - 07:45 AM, said:

Hey look at all the attention it garnered him. That like a mewling child is all he wanted, and by damn if our 24 hour news cycle playing it up didn't deliver.

And ours too it has to be said because this item seems to have gone worldwide, at which point Obama and Clinton had to get involved. I suppose when you've only a got a congregation of 20 people or so (as has been reported) then maybe the only way is up in terms of attention, and he's also made himself a popular focus for every boss-eyed, rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth paranoid idiot that will want to applaud his idiotic "stand".

We now have the same problem with 24 hour news, on a slow news day even the most pointless idiot gets attention. If no paper of Tv station took up this story and reported it, then that pastor would have burned a pile of holy books and no one would have known about it beyond his 20 or so congregants and the neighbours who could smell the smoke.

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But that is the advantage to our first amendment, it points out the whack-a-doo's before they have a chance to act upon their lack of medication or education. Hopefully between talking to the Imam in Gainesville and supposedly NYC it will enlighten him a little. There is a cure for ignorance but the stricken need to open their minds to it.

Exactly right! What I've never understood is the mentality that says "all Muslims are evil", "or all Germans should apologise for the Holocaust", or even "all white people are racist" - it's engendering extreme tribalism where none needs to exist. As long as there are pillars of Muslim society still willing to enlighten rather than allowing these attiudes to estrange them and use them as an excuse for becoming entrenched in opposition then there is still hope for the planet.

This post has been edited by JulesLuvsShinzon: 11 September 2010 - 08:35 AM

[Andorian Brandyman]

JulesLuvsShinzon, on 11 September 2010 - 06:40 AM, said:

Well, I totally predicted that response from you. I'm loving your comments about "tone" - did you check yours out before you posted that garbage? Do you think you sound even rational? You speak like a true paranoid and myopic redneck Republican spewing the kind of ignorance and lack of education that provokes wars. How funny that you think I'm a Muslim! I suppose that you think everyone in Britain is a Muslim now because we've apparently rolled over and allowed ourselves to be overcome by a tidal wave of Islam, and every English woman is wearing a burkha. What a total knob you are! Yeah, I've heard all that kind of claptrap before, and it is claptrap, not to say downright insulting considering our brave soldiers are currently risking life and limb tidying up after your illegal war on Iraq and defending the West against Al Quaeda in Afghanistan. Don't you ever read newspapers, or don't they come in large enough print for you?



The ignorance is all on your side Bubba.




I'm sorry - "personal attacks"? Are you completely potty not to understand that your entire post is a personal attack? I'm fascinated to know from which wikki you sourced information about the "pillage" we're supposed to have perpetrated on Europe, because that's a new one on me. As for other outrages for which Britain is culpable, I'd like you to point out excatly where I said in any of my posts ever that Britain has a clean sheet in that respect? Besides, I certainly don't require a lecture on my own country's past iniquities from the likes of you, especially since your grasp of even the present day is so tenuous.

Here's some advice for you, you might want to try putting that booze down when you're bashing away at your keyboard because you end up making silly mistakes and looking like you wrote it all in a teeth-gnashing frenzy.

Besides, you should know that whatever the British Empire did in other countries, America has a similar track record, or was slavery only confined to Britain? Is the Ku Klux Klan a British invention? Take a look at your own country's history Bubba, if you can find a kindergarten book that covers it in simple enough language.



Oh you do give me too much credit when I didn't even make any claims to being that, so clearly I've hit a nerve - which would be something of an achievement with with total dunderhead like yourself. Get yourself a passport and travel - it broadens the mind you see.



I never claimed to have any prticular expertise, but I clearly know more about your country than you do about mine. Besides, what I know about America comes from far better, smarter, knowledeable and politically savvy Americans than you. I am pleased to count many Americans as my friends, even Republicans, however none of them hail from the kind of myopic, regressive, and paranoid cul-de-sac in which the likes of you fester.



Dear, dear, you really shouldn't believe everything you watch on Fox News. No wonder you're so ignorant about Britain. At least the British people are tackling radicalism (mostly aimed at America I hasten to add) on our shores in ways that are not likely to lead to global armageddon.




How can you be so utterly stupid? I know the difference between Christians, Jews, and Muslims, do you? Do you actually think I said that anyone other than radical Islamic terrorists were responsible for the terrorist attacks on 9/11. What I actually said in my post, which you should try reading again, was that people of all faiths were killed in 9/11. In fact everyone - apart from you apparently - knows that the casualties were not only Christians. The nature of the terrorist attacks in New York and London were indiscriminate - deliberately so, since the Muslims that got caught up in it and lost their lives in the mayhem the radicals would regard as matryrs.




Hopefully Hamilton will pay you no mind.

YOU seriously need to get an education because you show the kind of dangerous, redneck stupidity and lack of a real education that leads to the kind of paranoia and social unrest that causes wars. It's actually the kind of attitude that would-be dictators love to engender in their subjects prior to establishing a totalitarian regime, because people like you are so gullible because you'll believe anything that serves to feed your own hatred and paranoia.

I'm tempted to laugh at your sterotypical use of "bleeding heart liberal" but actually people like you are not funny, simply dangerous and in need of serious attitude adjustment. You need to get that fluff out of your little Right-Wing 30 watt brain and understand that people like me are not anti-American, only anti Americans like yourself on a mission to make everyone believe that America is backward-facing, paranoid, and dangerous. Fortunately I know better.

EDIT: Sorry Ensign Edwards, I get your point about remaining polite to other posters but such idiocy needs to be dealt with because I feel that this kind of nasty paranoia reflects badly on the rest of rest the members here, especially those residing in the US to whom I send my best wishes on the 9th anniversary of 9/11.

SEE HAMILTON, how she apologizes to someone in Canada, but the USA sucks. Hamilton you will find that there is euro trash that will condem whatever we do. Take it with a grain of salt and move on. And vote in November.

[sevnson_71]

Please consider this a mod warning. Keep it clean and factual, and lay off the personal digs or I will start flagging accounts.

PS- I don't CARE who started it.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

No worries - it all just rolls off me like water on a duck's back. I just put it down from whence it comes and assume that others here are bright enough to do the same.

I'm actually loving the fact that certain people here can't differentiate between a British person and a "European".

[sevnson_71]

House rules are house rules. I can appreciate you have a thick skin but personal insults are against the rules for all parties concerned, and will only lead to people throwing more insults and that devolves what began an intelligent conversation into people reverting to a good old fashioned simian dung throwing contest. Personally I think we are capable of better things than that.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

I hope so too, but general misconeptions about a nation of people can be as offensive as insults against the person and should aways be addressed. For the record, I am not "anti-American" and object to having my views characterised in that way. It bears repeating that I have many American friends, they just don't tend to number amongst the noisy, militant and paranoid minority that have disproportionately coloured the view of many people outside of the US.

Clearly not everyone here goes out of their way to be as well-informed as your good self and other patient sages of TU.

[Hamilton]

Jules is telling it how she sees it, Andorian Brandyman. She's entitled to her own opinion, as are you.

That being said, don't try to drag me into this to defend your point of view. Not only do I disagree with you, I feel you've been incredibly rude and disrespectful to Jules. If you want to make a point, do so without insulting others. If you can't do that, you have no argument and therefore, nothing to bring to the discussion, other than inflammatory rhetoric.

[Trek Realist]

Wow, I came back to a cool topic

I have been off on a little "walkabout" here, but I do try to keep abreast of what the temperature of the water is south of the border, not quite Mexico way.

I am glad to see that my sage and dear friend Shlomi made his statement the way he did. While making clear his personal opinion on the matter, he did address the higher principle involved.

This is a devisive issue because of the many sensibilities that are either irritated or soothed by the presence of this mosque. I do find in interesting that no one has yet commented on the fact that there was, in fact, a mosque inside the WTC when it was attacked. In my mind, that makes the whole arguement moot because I see no reason why something that was there before couldn't be there now.

As an Athiest I am not invested in the issue on either side, I am just quietly working for the day that superstition and dogma can finally be eradicated from the human condition.



So ... did ya miss me ???

[sevnson_71]

Mainly in my research(I like to make sure I'm accurate) it was a prayer room, not a full-on mosque. Similarly, what this is supposed to be is a community center like the Y, ecumenical in nature but with a prayer room for Muslims.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

Trek Realist, on 24 September 2010 - 11:15 AM, said:

As an Athiest I am not invested in the issue on either side, I am just quietly working for the day that superstition and dogma can finally be eradicated from the human condition.

So ... did ya miss me ???

I did!

I've argue from an Atheist position on the polarising effect of organised, patriarchal religion for a long time. However, I don't see actual religion as the problem so much as the human prediliction for tribal behaviour and the ways in which religion is used as an excuse and justification for promoting the superiority of one group over another. If you take religion and dogma out of the equation, humanity will only use some other yardstick to define those that measure up (i.e. those who can belong to the tribe) apart from those that should be excluded from the tribe. It's what drives sexism, homophobia and racism. Besides, we're seeing it with some Atheists (present company excepted!) who are promoting their own intelletual superiority over believers every bit as aggressively as some religious leaders have sought to defame non-believers.

The recent visit of the Pope to Britain has not helped matters since it has brought about a resurgence in the belief that Catholics should be openly genuflecting in public, telling people they will pray for them, and generally wearing their Catholicism like a badge in order to counter the supposed "agressive secularism" that is allegedly rampant in the UK. None of this is at all helpful and I would prefer our country to be a place where personal beliefs were kept pivate or within communities, and where peoplen lived quietly by the principles of their faith, not forcing them on other people - certainly not trying to influence the law making process which should always be rational and objective.

Objections to having this mosque near Ground Zero are emotional, prejudicial and not at all based on logical arguments.

This post has been edited by JulesLuvsShinzon: 26 September 2010 - 12:18 PM

[sevnson_71]

JulesLuvsShinzon, on 26 September 2010 - 12:15 PM, said:

I did!

I've argue from an Atheist position on the polarising effect of organised, patriarchal religion for a long time. However, I don't see actual religion as the problem so much as the human prediliction for tribal behaviour and the ways in which religion is used as an excuse and justification for promoting the superiority of one group over another. If you take religion and dogma out of the equation, humanity will only use some other yardstick to define those that measure up (i.e. those who can belong to the tribe) apart from those that should be excluded from the tribe. It's what drives sexism, homophobia and racism. Besides, we're seeing it with some Atheists (present company excepted!) who are promoting their own intelletual superiority over believers every bit as aggressively as some religious leaders have sought to defame non-believers.

The recent visit of the Pope to Britain has not helped matters since it has brought about a resurgence in the belief that Catholics should be openly genuflecting in public, telling people they will pray for them, and generally wearing their Catholicism like a badge in order to counter the supposed "agressive secularism" that is allegedly rampant in the UK. None of this is at all helpful and I would prefer our country to be a place where personal beliefs were kept pivate or within communities, and where peoplen lived quietly by the principles of their faith, not forcing them on other people - certainly not trying to influence the law making process which should always be rational and objective.

Objections to having this mosque near Ground Zero are emotional, prejudicial and not at all based on logical arguments.

By jove I think she's got it! Or as I usually refer to it, the "pecking order", like you see among pretty much any of the socialized "lower species" of this little blue marble of a planet.

Thing is I was taught by everyone from my parents down to the late Archbishop of Manchester(listed by order of importance) that it doesn't matter who you are or what medal you are wearing, the other guy is as human as you and deserves to be treated with the same respect you ask of them to offer to you. That is one thing that has troubled me of the conservative swing the Vatican has taken in the last 25 years or so, and we see it here too. Not all priests are like that, or even agree with the current leadership's aggressive conservatism. But I don't see that bit going away until a young Pope is placed in the Holy See, and though I'd never wish anyone a hastened or untimely death, I know the odds of the end of Benedict's reign being sooner rater than later are more likely given he is about my dad's age.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

Yes, I don't understand the Vatican's apparent bias towards appointing old men as Popes, especially the more conservative variety. They don't seem to understand that part of the function of religion absolutely has to be that it continues to appeal to its adherents. Here and in Europe, one gets the feeling that Catholicism is at best ceremonial and occasional and that most people simply ignore the church's laws about contraception etc. Italy, ironically, had the lowest birthrate in Europe, so married couples are either abstaining, withdrawing, or habituees of the local pharmacy!! Very clarly there is a divide between nominal faith and faith practice - so what does this say about the actual influence of the Pope? Clearly his own less devout followers cherry pick the rules they are prepared to live by, and the Catholic church's biggest drum to bang - abortion - has singly failed to reverse the law either here or in the US. Devout Catholics can genuflect and pray all they want, but it seems that they have very little influence given that they are so out of step with modern life and sensible people will continue to do exactly as they please in between occasional visits to church, therefore an old Pope who continues to assert that people who do not follow the rules are not beig proper Catholics might want to refect upon the fact that maybe a proper Catholic is what the majority say it is in spite of any Vatican ruling. If that were the case, pontifs would not have to urge more people to be publicly promoting their faith and faith in general ould have less of a bad name amongst secular people.

Sadly, the rather silly, long drawn out debate about women bishops and gay priests that threatened to divide the Anglican church has provided a platform for thre more shrill variety of bigots to very publicly covert to Catholicism as a protest. These high profile people will happily support the Pope's visit, and it didn't help that Tony Blair converted after he stepped down as Prime Minister. There was a debate about wether the tax payer should pick up the bill for the Pope's visit. I say "no" because I am not a Catholic and I don't buy into the argument that the Pope is a Head of State because the Vatican is a country. It looks like his visit was at least in part bankrolled by some very wealthy people - so what is their agenda? I dislike any sort of celebrity endorsement of faith, and I especially dislkike people using their influence to promote any kind of religion.

[sevnson_71]

Oh I'd never be presumptuous to put my name in the hat for canonization, that is a certainty. I do very much value the life of a child, which is why I admit I have outright skirted the contraception rule. I am not ready to care for a child on my own nor would I expect a woman to raise my child on her own. With no insult implied to single parents, quite the opposite in fact, parenting ideally should be a two person job through adulthood. I also believe life begins at that first division into a zygote. So the logical course if you aren't able to set up shop to rear a child to adulthood within a nine month span is to either abstain or prevent the conception before the fact as much as what science and safety allow(I mention that mainly because of all the adverts you see for "ambulance chasers" here regarding damages for bad birth control pills). This also makes me a very picky man as to who I spend time with, because well things go wrong sometimes don't they?

Aaaaanyways enough of that in this thread, back on topic

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

sevnson_71, on 27 September 2010 - 02:53 PM, said:

This also makes me a very picky man as to who I spend time with, because well things go wrong sometimes don't they?

They certainly can! If only every guy had the same sensible and prudent outlook on these matters as you do - so much heartache would be saved. I applaud you!

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Aaaaanyways enough of that in this thread, back on topic

Good idea!

[sevnson_71]

Architectural renders of the proposal

[sevnson_71]

A fitting epitaph to the Terry (Funk) Jones canceled Quran burning story...We can has cash and prizes nao?