Jump to content



Photo

Is Sisko the most unimpressive Trek captain?


40 replies to this topic

#1 dirtpeach

 

dirtpeach

    Petty Officer 2nd Class

  • Members
  • 45 posts
 

Posted 22 November 2009 - 02:02 PM

I just finished watching all 7 seasons of DS9. It was a great show with a great cast (crew) but I found Sisko unimpressive. He's not as cunning as Kirk or as well-rounded as Picard. All other Trek captains were able to pull their ship's ass out of a lot of tight spaces with quick and brilliant thinking. I'm having trouble remembering times when Sisko did the same.

The more I think about it, he had very little to do with winning the Dominion War.

Rom came up with the mines.

Sisko did prevent reinforments from coming through the wormhole by begging the Prophets.

The Romulans joined the Federation because Sisko asked for Garak's help.

He was in the infirmary while the Federation took Chin'toka.

His biggest contribution to the assault on Cardassia Prime was ordering evasive pattern something.

And he got rid of Dukat and the Pah Wraiths because Kai Wynn told him to get rid of the book.

Argh. I expect more from a Trek captain. Can anybody point me to anything impressive Sisko did?

Edited by dirtpeach, 22 November 2009 - 02:03 PM.


Facebook Comments Below ( All comments made with your Facebook account are subject to moderator discretion )

#2 Apocalypse

 

Apocalypse

    The Baron, Resident Duelist

  • Members
  • 13,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Trapped in Aperture Science Labs
 

Posted 22 November 2009 - 02:26 PM

I'm by no means a DS9 expert, but from what I gather, Kirk is a fighter, Picard is a diplomat, and Sisko is a tactician.

Edited by Apocalypse, 22 November 2009 - 02:26 PM.

Recent-ish blog entry: The D20-headed Knight, Chapter Six: The Prodigal Steve Returns
"Oh, come on... be reasonable. You can't destroy everything; where would you sit?"
-The Tick

#3 dirtpeach

 

dirtpeach

    Petty Officer 2nd Class

  • Members
  • 45 posts
 

Posted 22 November 2009 - 04:42 PM

For a tactician, his decisions were quite obvious.

He retook DS9 from the Dominion because he had no choice. The mines were about to be deactivated. He endorsed the attack on Chin'toka because it was poorly defended. He agreed on attacking Cardassia because the Dominion pulled back and could not be given the chance to regroup and replenish their troops and ships. During fleet battles he was always (correct me if I'm wrong) reactionary.

I believe Kira and Worf would make a better captain than him. The only things he was good at were being the Emissary and cooking.

#4 John Doe

 

John Doe

    Commodore

  • Members
  • 702 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:With Olivia Dunham in Fringe's alternate universe
 

Posted 22 November 2009 - 05:03 PM

Well, DS9 was an entirely different kind of Trek show; all the other Trek shows (and captains) are based on a ship, and this one is stuck on a space station. That changes everything, the captain there has to be an entirely different kind of character.

For a tactician, his decisions were quite obvious.

Tacticians have to make obvious decision most of the time.

You watched the show with too much expectations, and the guy didn't fill any of them. Sisko doesn't have to be impressive.A Trek show is more than its captain.

Without trying to sound egotistical... (...) I have my own ideas and aspirations which were countlessly shot down in the past. I've no interest in being in that position again.


#5 maneth

 

maneth

    GBBS Moderator

  • Members
  • 1,496 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Terok Nor
 

Posted 23 November 2009 - 02:00 AM

I think Sisko did a great job considering he didn't want to be there in the first place. DS9 is my favorite Trek show, one reason is that it's much less episodic than the others and there's real character development. Another is that its captain is a human being who isn't afraid of showing his vulnerable side. Kirk shagged anything pretty in a skirt (even though the occasions were rarer than people stereotypically think), Picard and Janeway were emotionally cold, Picard from natural inclination, Janeway because she didn't have much choice given how isolated the Voyager crew was in the delta quadrant, and I haven't seen enough Enterprise to judge Archer.


Posted Image
Live long and prosper


#6 Terilynn

 

Terilynn

    Black-Booted Blogging Barmistress

  • Members
  • 7,515 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:The Land of Enchantment
 

Posted 23 November 2009 - 02:16 PM

We're almost all the way through Season 6 of DS9 and we've seen all of ENT. Sisko and Archer have a lot in common - namely fallibility. Sisko is nowhere near my favorite Captain (Picard still holds a solid lock on my heart) but he does havepassion and I will also smile for that. Same with Archer. Archer makes some pretty effed up decisions, but the Prime Directive doesn't exist yet for him so a lot of those decisions can be kissed off to being a reason why the PD is written to begin with. But Sisko? Yikes...he comes up with some doozies - and I'm not quite sure how he supposedly is supposed to sleep with himself after a few of them. DS9 has such a strong cast, I am actually a little disappointed that the writes did use him more, but that's just me.

#7 dirtpeach

 

dirtpeach

    Petty Officer 2nd Class

  • Members
  • 45 posts
 

Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:28 PM

You watched the show with too much expectations, and the guy didn't fill any of them. Sisko doesn't have to be impressive.A Trek show is more than its captain.


I disagree. Odo was an impressive constable; Kira an impressive first officer/freedom fighter; Worf at tactical. Bashir I think is the best doctor in all of Trek. O'Brien was a great engineer. Even Nog and Rom were great at their positions. Why can't Sisko be an impressive captain?

Don't get me wrong. I love DS9. In terms of writing, characters and plot, it's incredible. Sisko as a character was great. But as a captain, nope.

For Sisko fans, please remind me of an instance where he did great.

#8 Apocalypse

 

Apocalypse

    The Baron, Resident Duelist

  • Members
  • 13,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Trapped in Aperture Science Labs
 

Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:39 PM

I could probably enlist someone who would defend Sisko quite heatedly, but alas, he does not post here anymore.

But I would like to add that Sisko was thrust into a rather delicate situation that only worsened with time and he pulled through.
Recent-ish blog entry: The D20-headed Knight, Chapter Six: The Prodigal Steve Returns
"Oh, come on... be reasonable. You can't destroy everything; where would you sit?"
-The Tick

#9 Ronin of Fire

 

Ronin of Fire

    2nd Year Cadet

  • Members
  • 18 posts
 

Posted 24 November 2009 - 06:09 AM

He punched Q need we say more
"From the Skies we shall Reign"- Unknown Fed. Marine before HARLAO jumping on to AR-558 during Operation Starfall

#10 ensign edwards

 

ensign edwards

    Player of all things Warcraft

  • SaveEnterprise Alumni
  • 14,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, Ontario, Canada
 

Posted 24 November 2009 - 11:21 AM

DS9 is my least favourite Trek incarnation, but Sisko always seemed like a cool character. I found him pretty interesting. I haven't seen enough of the show to give any specific examples, but if he was unimpressive, it's probably just a result of the poor writing that constantly dogged DS9. I think he's a fine character.

#11 Apocalypse

 

Apocalypse

    The Baron, Resident Duelist

  • Members
  • 13,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Trapped in Aperture Science Labs
 

Posted 24 November 2009 - 02:56 PM

He punched Q need we say more

"Picard never hit me."
"I'm not Picard!"
Recent-ish blog entry: The D20-headed Knight, Chapter Six: The Prodigal Steve Returns
"Oh, come on... be reasonable. You can't destroy everything; where would you sit?"
-The Tick

#12 maneth

 

maneth

    GBBS Moderator

  • Members
  • 1,496 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Terok Nor
 

Posted 25 November 2009 - 02:19 AM

DS9 is my least favourite Trek incarnation, but Sisko always seemed like a cool character. I found him pretty interesting. I haven't seen enough of the show to give any specific examples, but if he was unimpressive, it's probably just a result of the poor writing that constantly dogged DS9. I think he's a fine character.


Funny how opinions differ, I found DS9 the best-written show of those that I've seen, i.e. all of them except Enterprise. But that's in the works once we've watched TOS.


Posted Image
Live long and prosper


#13 Apocalypse

 

Apocalypse

    The Baron, Resident Duelist

  • Members
  • 13,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Trapped in Aperture Science Labs
 

Posted 25 November 2009 - 02:39 PM

Indeed. I find DS9 to be overall the second best following TNG. And in fact, I've been watching some DS9 and I've finished the first season, and so far it seems that Sisko is the complete package. He's a diplomat (you'd have to be on a station like that... the mere fact that he and Major Kira are friends proves that) and he's also a fighter. He doesn't like to stand aside like Picard did on so many occasions... look at his encounter with Q that we just talked about. He actually hit Q, and when Q said "Picard never hit me," Sisko responded, "I'm not Picard."
Recent-ish blog entry: The D20-headed Knight, Chapter Six: The Prodigal Steve Returns
"Oh, come on... be reasonable. You can't destroy everything; where would you sit?"
-The Tick

#14 dirtpeach

 

dirtpeach

    Petty Officer 2nd Class

  • Members
  • 45 posts
 

Posted 25 November 2009 - 10:36 PM

As far as I recall he was only a good diplomat mostly to the Bajorans which wasn't too difficult since he was the Emissary.

There are 2 things only Sisko and no other Trek captain could've done. Allow the death of an innocent Romulan to bring Romulus into the Alliance against the Dominion and the imprisonment and death of a Federation citizen (Sloan) to save Odo.

#15 Apocalypse

 

Apocalypse

    The Baron, Resident Duelist

  • Members
  • 13,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Trapped in Aperture Science Labs
 

Posted 25 November 2009 - 10:49 PM

Well, I've been watching the first three episodes of season 2, and Sisko's a badass, tactically speaking. His diplomatic methods are subtle, but they're there and when you recognize them they're brilliant. I'm afraid with my limited knowledge as of now I can't offer any argument other than my disagreement.

Edited by Apocalypse, 25 November 2009 - 10:50 PM.

Recent-ish blog entry: The D20-headed Knight, Chapter Six: The Prodigal Steve Returns
"Oh, come on... be reasonable. You can't destroy everything; where would you sit?"
-The Tick

#16 ensign edwards

 

ensign edwards

    Player of all things Warcraft

  • SaveEnterprise Alumni
  • 14,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, Ontario, Canada
 

Posted 09 December 2009 - 11:37 AM

Funny how opinions differ, I found DS9 the best-written show of those that I've seen, i.e. all of them except Enterprise. But that's in the works once we've watched TOS.


Your opinion seems to be the most common one. I've never understood how my view of DS9 could be so radically different from everyone else's.

I've always had the feeling you'd like Enterprise, but, then, I wouldn't expect you (or anyone else) to enjoy DS9, so I don't really know. At any rate, I'll be curious to hear what you think of it.

And in fact, I've been watching some DS9 and I've finished the first season, and so far it seems that Sisko is the complete package. He's a diplomat (you'd have to be on a station like that... the mere fact that he and Major Kira are friends proves that) and he's also a fighter. He doesn't like to stand aside like Picard did on so many occasions... look at his encounter with Q that we just talked about. He actually hit Q, and when Q said "Picard never hit me," Sisko responded, "I'm not Picard."


I may not like DS9, but Sisko did always strike me as a fairly awesome character. Aside from that silly Emissary stuff.

#17 Disconnected Drone

 

Disconnected Drone

    Vice Admiral

  • Members
  • 1,149 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Not with Plaz. =(
 

Posted 22 December 2009 - 04:47 AM

Sisko was a good character; not the best Captain ever, but a good character none-the-less. They really did a great job with him, I think. I think what makes Sisko different from all of the other Captains is that he was very family oriented; he had a son, and later on a second wife. He cared for them a great deal; no other Starfleet Captain can say that. Captain Picard wasn't a family man, nor was Kirk. Even though she didn't come on until later, Captain Janeway wasn't a family person either. Had Archer had the chance, I think he would have been a family guy. But Sisko was the only Captain who had a family from the beginning.

Maybe that's why he was unimpressive...?
Unless life gives you water and sugar as well, your lemonade is going to suck.

Love Should Not Divide

#18 Apocalypse

 

Apocalypse

    The Baron, Resident Duelist

  • Members
  • 13,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Trapped in Aperture Science Labs
 

Posted 22 December 2009 - 05:39 AM

But he was not unimpressive. He was, as Jake Sisko put it, "one of the best combat officers in Starfleet." I mean, look at his track record: he was put in charge of (well not in charge of, but he was an equal and perhaps a superior to that Admiral guy and General Martok in terms of command) two of the most vital operations in the Dominion War, both of which succeeded. The first was the retaking of DS9, which at that point was the most vital operation in the entire war, and the second the assault on Cardassia Prime. Sure, in both instances he had a little outside help, but who says winning wars must be accomplished without luck?
That and he was given charge of the Defiant, arguably the most powerful ship that Starfleet had at its disposal, and used her well.
Recent-ish blog entry: The D20-headed Knight, Chapter Six: The Prodigal Steve Returns
"Oh, come on... be reasonable. You can't destroy everything; where would you sit?"
-The Tick

#19 Disconnected Drone

 

Disconnected Drone

    Vice Admiral

  • Members
  • 1,149 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Not with Plaz. =(
 

Posted 22 December 2009 - 06:19 AM

I didn't mean to imply that I thought him unimpressive. It's just that the original poster thought him that; I was merely giving a possible reason. Agreed --Sisko handled what he was given well. Sure, he had outside help (the Romulans, Garak, ect...) but you have to have some skill to be able to suceed in what he did. Not saying that he has his flaws; it's just that he did a lot of good. I think that he could have improved on the way he ran the station, but as far as commanding the Defiant, he did a great job.

Maybe Sisko would have made a better Captain of an actual ship rather than a space station...?
Unless life gives you water and sugar as well, your lemonade is going to suck.

Love Should Not Divide

#20 dominion_ruler

 

dominion_ruler

    Admiral

  • Members
  • 1,807 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gamma Quadrant
 

Posted 24 December 2009 - 10:04 AM

I would say that Sisko might be the most unimpressive captain, but that does not make him unimpressive. He could be considering one of the most fascinating given his circumstances. As many have pointed out - he's on a station, has a family, is an emissary, etc. The one thing I love about Star Trek, is every captain from each series is unique in their own way, Sisko included.

Posted Image






Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users