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How will the new movie affect your fan production?


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#1 Terilynn

 

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 05:56 PM

Seeing as though [color=#ff0011;background:#ff0011]Romulus[/color] and presumably [color=#ff0011;background:#ff0011]Remus have both been destroyed in the "original" = (canon) timeline...[/color] how will - or will this affect any fiction, movie or other fan-based production you may have been planning on working on?

Seeing as though my entire Heritage series deals with both of them...I'm interested as to how others will deal with this. Will you change your stories/scripts, etc? Or will you be ignoring the existence of the film?

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#2 Captain_Hair

 

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 06:05 PM

Going off the stardate given in Countdown #2, the [color=#ff0011;background:#ff0011]destruction of Romulus[/color] doesn't happen until late May, 2387. For me, Star Trek: Aldrin is currently in late 2380, so I'm safe for another 6 years.

Though it does give me some ideas as to where I want to proceed. Obviously, Aldrin is going to stay set in the 'old' Star Trek universe (I'd lose one (or two?) of my main characters if I decided to slide to the new side, and that's not acceptable), but now that I think about it... it throws an interesting wrench into my future plans. Huh.

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#3 Terilynn

 

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 06:11 PM

Since Heritage for me is set in its current time 33 year post Nemesis, I have no choice but to ignore the film. So I will ad caveats to those sites where the 1st book is posted and of course, make sure the next 3 books all contain that same caveat.

#4 Kirok

 

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 09:59 PM

On the night of the Sydney premiere I made a podcast on this subject that seems to have been lost in the machine somewhere. <shrugs> Here's my thoughts on the matter at the time ...

Podcast 07/04/09

Today is such a momentous occasion that I just have to get something out tonight and how better than to do a "shoot-from-the-hip" podcast?

We're at a watershed tonight with the world premiere in Sydney of "Star Trek", the latest incarnation of the franchise Ok, so its not in the same caliber as "where were you when JFK was shot” or when they walked on the moon but for Star Trek fans this could mark a major changing point.

The problem is that although its the world premiere we, the people, don't actually get to see it until May 7th so, although we might get some secondhand impressions from those who were lucky enough to actually be there, we still won't be able to answer those burning questions about the plot, the design and the direction that have been polarising Trek fandom since the movie was announced.

Personally, I've tried to steer well clear of the teasers and speculation that has been blowing about since the movie was announced, ostensibly because I want to keep an open mind but mainly because most of the comment just shows up our hopes and desires rather than any objective point. But then, what else would you expect? If you're a Trek fan its because you fell in love with one or other of the shows and your relationship with a new show is going to be as traumatic as taking a new lover!

It doesn't have to be of course.

Just as a widow remarrying doesn't mean that she loves her first husband any less, enjoying this new movie doesn't mean you love the Original Series any less. Its just that ... imagine if she'd remarried and her husband were brought back to life? I don't mean brought back as “the zombie husband from Hell”, I mean just as good, if not better than before? That's the problem facing the Star Trek fan production community right now because, to stretch the analogy to breaking point, some of the current productions are based on keeping that first love alive for fans!

James Cawley, executive producer and star of Star Trek: Phase II, was the first to voice this I think on their forum on March sixth, when he said, “The original continuity and time line are gone forever. With the release of this film projects like this one will soon fade away and become irrelevant.” I've interviewed Mr Cawley and his passion for his production is so obvious that Blind Freddy could see it! For him to say this stunned me!

You have to remember that James is an Original Series purist. His personal collection of costumes and memorabilia is legendary, not surprising considering that he worked under William Ware Theiss as a freelance costumer during the first season of Star Trek: The Next Generation. He financed and built a replica of the bridge set of the Enterprise as seen on the Original Series that caused Walter Koenig to say, “Thank you. I have come home again,”

However most telling of all is his personal influence on the world of Star Trek fandom with his vision of a continuation of the “Five Year Mission” - the fan film series started in 2003 as Star Trek: New Voyages and now arguably the highest profile fan production series of any genre: Star Trek: Phase II.

Make no mistake, he's no “one-eyed fan” who cannot appreciate the work of another. During a visit to the Paramount studio lot in January last year, JJ Abrams recognised him, invited him onto the movie set to talk about his production and was so impressed with him that he asked him to take a casting call that led to a part in the film.

Nor is there any suggestion of him selling out - James has said all along that whilst he admires and supports JJ's work he still prefers the look and style of the Original Series and his commitment to his dream is unquestionable. Taking all this into account, is it any wonder that this new direction from the studio should cut so close to his heart?

How could fan productions based on the new movie be a problem? Well, Some see the Star Trek fan production community is a “closed set” of people who make and enjoy them and believe the new movie will be competition for the creative resources and fanbase of the established groups

The real question is, are there limits to the resources available? Is there, for example, only a finite number of fans with the talent and commitment to create Star Trek fan films or only so many fans who want to watch them?

Only time will tell but personally I'm optimistic

The whole idea behind the new movie is that it is a new treatment, a new way of looking at an established fictional universe that is aimed a new audience. Considering the strength of some of the reactions of the established Star Trek fans, I doubt if there'll be a vast exodus from their first love. I think what you'll see will be the creation of a new fanbase in Star Trek fandom who will want to expand on their fan experience in just the same way as previous generations have.

Rather than seeing established groups go under, I reckon we are going to see new groups starting up. Will this mean competition for the same audience? Aside from the fact that fan productions are non commercial so that download hit-counts shouldn't worry them, I doubt if they'll compete: the style of each will be too different.

Damn! Now there I go – making an assumption about the movie before its public release!

I can tell you that if, as I expect, the new movie lives up to expectations, I for one will encourage and watch (or listen) any fan productions based on it. Like the Vulcan said, “Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations”

Hey! You didn't think you'd get away without at least one Trekkie quote didya?

Cheers

K

PS planning on seeing the movie with the whole family tonight, only got back from holidays last night.

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#5 ensign edwards

 

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 09:58 AM

I'm thankful that my fan production won't be affected. It's part of both timelines.

#6 Terilynn

 

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 08:53 PM

I'm thankful that my fan production won't be affected. It's part of both timelines.


Yeah...who knew that ENT fans would be the only ones NOT getting screwed? You'd better thank Orci that he's a fan. ;)

Sigh...well, off to try to ignore the movie. I kinda liked Rommies and Remans...so, they will exist in my stuff...(Besides I bought and read the Countdown series...personally? thought they were stupid.) Hell most of the Trek books are ignored too! So why not! *grins*

#7 Kirok

 

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 09:27 PM

What was the stardate that Spock came back from anyway? Was it mentioned?

K

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#8 Terilynn

 

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:04 PM

I don't remember anything from the actual movie, but the Countdown prequel lists the beginning stardate (Countdown #4) as 64467.14

Edited by Terilynn, 09 May 2009 - 10:07 PM.


#9 Kirok

 

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:08 PM

What was the stardate that Spock came back from anyway? Was it mentioned?

Scratch that - Wikipedia says it is 2387, eight years after Nemesis. How does that affect the Pocket Books timeline? From what I can see the Titan books are shortly after Nemesis and Destiny is listed as being in 2381. So the semi-canon book license has six canon years to play with and even then I'll lay odds they'll continue publishing stories in the established canon universe past the catastrophe.

Just out of curiosity I might see how this compares with the Intrepid / HF timeline.

K

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#10 Terilynn

 

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 11:28 PM

Scratch that - Wikipedia says it is 2387, eight years after Nemesis. How does that affect the Pocket Books timeline? From what I can see the Titan books are shortly after Nemesis and Destiny is listed as being in 2381. So the semi-canon book license has six canon years to play with and even then I'll lay odds they'll continue publishing stories in the established canon universe past the catastrophe.

Just out of curiosity I might see how this compares with the Intrepid / HF timeline.

K


Yep - Titan books are up to 2382 I believe...so they have about 5 years before they have to deal with the idea of blowing up Romulus and Remus.

#11 trekzone

 

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 10:12 AM

whilst my fan production is little known at this point...i think i may now incorporate an arc to deal with this issue...



#12 Ben_Jamin

 

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 11:52 AM

To be honest, as it's a paralel timeline, I can use this as well as the original continuity. I actually saw the movie yesterday and afterwards, I was inspired to write something new, incorporating some small elements of the original continuity along with the new one, namely one other federation ship featured. I ay also, in future things, include some small references to the design of a new class (can anyone say Excelsior, lol) taking place.

The ending, which I will say absolutely nothing about, sorry, leaves possibilities that weren't previously open. To paraphrase my favourite comic book writer, "'Nuff Said."
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http://anne.epsilonf...x.php?page=main <--- USS Anne, Ambassador Class, Epsilon Force

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#13 hudson

 

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 03:18 PM

Scratch that - Wikipedia says it is 2387, eight years after Nemesis. How does that affect the Pocket Books timeline? From what I can see the Titan books are shortly after Nemesis and Destiny is listed as being in 2381. So the semi-canon book license has six canon years to play with and even then I'll lay odds they'll continue publishing stories in the established canon universe past the catastrophe.

Just out of curiosity I might see how this compares with the Intrepid / HF timeline.

K

Both are a few years before the "romulan event" which is the only piece both productions would probably consider as part of their universe. All HF stories will tie up before that event so will not be affected at all.

Operation Beta Shield is set in 2384

Edited by hudson, 11 May 2009 - 03:22 PM.


#14 Kirok

 

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 04:57 PM

Both are a few years before the "romulan event" which is the only piece both productions would probably consider as part of their universe. All HF stories will tie up before that event so will not be affected at all.

Operation Beta Shield is set in 2384

Thanks Hudson! So there's plenty of time to steer plotlines towards / around the Romulan event. Really, only productions that are meant to happen after 2387 would be affected and outside of fan fiction, the only one I can think of is ST Lost Frontier, the audio drama from Darker Projects, although I'll need to check with Defiant. Lost Frontier has always taken place in an Alternate Universe from canon though, where the Federation has come close to destruction and they are trying to find out what is left to rebuild with. Come to think of it ... I can't remember a reference to the Romulans in ST LF anyway, so there's a possibility of inclusion there as well!

K

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#15 hudson

 

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 05:02 PM

Thanks Hudson! So there's plenty of time to steer plotlines towards / around the Romulan event. Really, only productions that are meant to happen after 2387 would be affected and outside of fan fiction, the only one I can think of is ST Lost Frontier, the audio drama from Darker Projects, although I'll need to check with Defiant. Lost Frontier has always taken place in an Alternate Universe from canon though, where the Federation has come close to destruction and they are trying to find out what is left to rebuild with. Come to think of it ... I can't remember a reference to the Romulans in ST LF anyway, so there's a possibility of inclusion there as well!

K

Yes, Darker Project's production could use it as they see fit, you just never know ;)

#16 sevnson_71

 

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 07:39 PM

Seems to me this should give you permission to open up all kinds of timelines for you guys to explore besides MU without breaking from that which is 'canon'. I know for a fact there is a fan production in the works which explores that possibility that preceded the current theater offering from Mr. Abrams.
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#17 Terilynn

 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 12:37 AM

I don't know about most fan-made film productions sevn, but ficcers have been writing AU, EU and MU stuff that extends from or completely ignores canon all the time.

I guess it's a different beast for the film groups...Opinions?

Edited by Terilynn, 12 May 2009 - 12:38 AM.


#18 Kirok

 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 01:02 AM

Seems to me this should give you permission to open up all kinds of timelines for you guys to explore besides MU without breaking from that which is 'canon'. I know for a fact there is a fan production in the works which explores that possibility that preceded the current theater offering from Mr. Abrams.

The truth of the matter is that no fan production will ever be canon so if you were cynical you could say that it doesn't matter what we do. The majority of writers and producers though try as best they can to make their productions mesh with established canon - ST Phase II believe they are more canon than canon! - they research the technology, the locations and cultures so that their own work rings true to other fans who might be reading.

In most cases this is especially true of how canon characters are handled and it is because of this that when they act out of character they stick-out. I'm mainly talking about slash but, yeah, there's stories out there that just don't ring true. The other side of the coin is that sometimes you get a story that throws a different light on a canon character, such as Joseph Manno's “Jurisprudence”, “The Trial of Kathryn Janeway”and “Parthian Shots” from his USS Liberty series.

This is one of the arts of the fiction writer - to see beyond the commonplace and surprise us. Maggie Scratch on the Mobile Read forum put it nicely when she wrote ...

Stephen King (who often writes about the writer's muse, even in his fiction) once wrote that all authors process their stories differently. Picture a horse standing next to a pond, and how two different authors might write a story about that scene: Louis L'Amour would write something about the horse's owner stopping to get a drink before heading out into the open prairie. Stephen King would write about a creature coming out of the pond and eating the horse. Neither is right or wrong; they just process it differently.


As regards alternate universes, Trek canon accepts them. In fact "Parallels" has an Enterprise from 285,000 universes together at one point! You're right, Sevnson, the idea of multiple alternate universes opens up possibilities but you'd need to handle it delicately - at what point does freedom become anarchy? Would we be in danger of having a Japanese style attitude towards canon where Anime characters and plotlines can change from one season to the next.

After saying that, I must sheepishly admit to having a treatment on my hard-drive for a plot that uses an alternate universe but that was mainly because I could find no fraternal twins in Trek canon that suited a certain classic storyline that I wanted to apropriate.

K

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#19 Terilynn

 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 01:23 AM

K: As you know, I use an Extended Universe in my big projects. But in doing so, I relied on the whole of what people are now calling "Prime Canon" as the foundation for that work. I don't tweak (or at least I don't think I tweak) what's already been done and assume its integrity throughout the whole of my material.

There are sometimes I also revel in the challenge of writing completely within the "Prime Canon" timeline - Just to see if I can create an interesting plot contained wholly within the established stories that bears no effect on the canon that surrounds my tale.

But I have to say - the movie really messes with my EU stuff now...to the point where I'm rather put off by what the movie did to the "Prime Canon" by adjusting that universe so profoundly.

There are a LOT of Rommie fans (and a few Reman fans) that are definitely more "Prime Canon" fans than of the new AU created by the movie. Essentially it literally shatters their worlds. I know you would probably feel the same had TPTB decided to blowup Qo'Nos instead in the new movie.

Adding a caveat to my work to now say it follows canon...until the new movie came out is one thing for me...

But man - it just seems so unforgiving. I really wish they had kept their mitts off Prime Canon altogether and come up with a different reason to make Nero cranky and get Old Spock back in time. But leaving Prime Canon with two missing planets just plain sucks IMHO.

Edited by Terilynn, 12 May 2009 - 01:24 AM.


#20 ensign edwards

 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 10:58 AM

I was probably never going to do anything with it anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter, but it occurred to me that the death of Romulus means my pet post-Nemesis series idea, Star Trek: What Lies Beyond, is no longer feasible. It was predicted on a Federation/Romulan alliance in the early 2400s.

Of course, I could always just ignore ST:XI.



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