[Caprica6]

Lots of peopel say that the borg were overused on Voyager. I disagree with this

The Borg were not encountered until Scorpion, which was the end of season three beginning of season 4, so right there you have three full seasons with no Borg. So episodes with anything more than just a mention of Borg are:

Scorpion I & II
Drone
Dark Frontier I & II
Collective
Unimatrix Zero I & II
Endgame I & II

so that's 10 episodes if you count two part episodes as two episodes. 10 episodes out of 170 hardly over using, don't you think


and the other part of Voyager

[louiskaty2]

It is my understanding that the Borg were off limits to Voyager until the First Contact movie was over.

After that they were used quite liberally by the good folks making Voyager, but I suppose no less than the Kazon before them.

The Borg (using First Contact sets and costumes) were always pretty solid episodes.

Swapping theKazon out for the Borg was a very good move.

It was also my understanding that the DS9 staff was told not to use the Borg becuase of First Contact then Voyager having the rights to use them after that.

[Caprica6]

well you can't get much worse than the Kazon

[louiskaty2]

Caprica6, on Jun 30 2008, 02:41 PM, said:

well you can't get much worse than the Kazon

The Kazon never really seemed to be the best bad guys at anything, not the firecest, not the most evil, not the most cunning, not the most powerful...

They were just hum, drum...

[Caprica6]

louiskaty2, on Jun 30 2008, 02:15 PM, said:

The Kazon never really seemed to be the best bad guys at anything, not the firecest, not the most evil, not the most cunning, not the most powerful...

They were just hum, drum...

the only thing that made the Kazon a threat was the size of their ships. Other than that, they were pretty *yawn*

[The Original Guru]

I don't think it was a case of Voyager over-using The Borg. Drone would have been the odd-one-out episode for me out of the bunch, but I think the Borg episodes were okay. I think I was more sick of Borg technology being the solution to every problem. Seven for me was a character that I think Voyager could have done without. Sure, Jeri Ryan is a fine actress, and easy on the eyes (let's face it; that's why she was brought on to the show), but I found the character of Seven of Nine to be dull.

[Caprica6]

The Original Guru, on Jun 30 2008, 02:31 PM, said:

I don't think it was a case of Voyager over-using The Borg. Drone would have been the odd-one-out episode for me out of the bunch, but I think the Borg episodes were okay. I think I was more sick of Borg technology being the solution to every problem. Seven for me was a character that I think Voyager could have done without. Sure, Jeri Ryan is a fine actress, and easy on the eyes (let's face it; that's why she was brought on to the show), but I found the character of Seven of Nine to be dull.

I think that's a bit of an overexageration. Besides if you had a Borg crewmember with the knowledge of the collective, wouldn't you use that knowledge

and Seven might have initialy been brought on for the T&A factor, but I think she quickly showed that she was more than that. I think she was an interesting character, definately much much better than the one she replaced

[louiskaty2]

Caprica6, on Jun 30 2008, 03:36 PM, said:

I think that's a bit of an overexageration. Besides if you had a Borg crewmember with the knowledge of the collective, wouldn't you use that knowledge

and Seven might have initialy been brought on for the T&A factor, but I think she quickly showed that she was more than that. I think she was an interesting character, definately much much better than the one she replaced

Now the Borg Kids...

That's something I could have done without... Yikes!

[Caprica6]

louiskaty2, on Jun 30 2008, 02:52 PM, said:

Now the Borg Kids...

That's something I could have done without... Yikes!

I actualy realy liked them, especialy Mezoti

[louiskaty2]

Caprica6, on Jun 30 2008, 04:18 PM, said:

I actualy realy liked them, especialy Mezoti

I guess to each his/her own.

I thought the 'Borg Kids' were generally disliked by all.

But hey you learn something new everyday.

[Caprica6]

louiskaty2, on Jun 30 2008, 04:20 PM, said:

I guess to each his/her own.

I thought the 'Borg Kids' were generally disliked by all.

But hey you learn something new everyday.

I dont know, I liked them

[shinkai]

I'd say mishandled more than overused. I wasn't fond of the kids, but I was glad that we got to see the Borg's corner of the galaxy. I just wish there was better writing. There was almost always a technobabble solution, so with Seven it got to be Borg technobabble solutions more so than not.

There's been some kind of eye candy for each series, so Jeri wasn't a factor for me. I could see how and when she was there for that, but I respect her acting so it balanced out.

I feel like there was so much unused potential for Voyager...decent actors, good premise, etc... but the writing was such a disappointment. By the time it got to the Borg, I wasn't upset if real life interrupted the show or not like I was with DS9. Not that I wasn't also hugely disappointed with the Kazon, but I suffered through that hoping the show would improve.

For all the problems I had with it, I still liked it, just not as much as the other series. Someday I'll pick up the DVDs, so I may end up liking it more then.

[kalan]

I liked Borg episodes.

[Caprica6]

kalan, on Jun 30 2008, 08:50 PM, said:

I liked Borg episodes.

Me too

[Melvin]

I say they weren't overused; in fact, I love the Borg episodes. It's just, in TNG, it was like, "Borg cube, oh no!" and in Voyager it was like, "Three Borg cubes? Well, we can handle it." So they were kind of mishandled, like shinkai said.

[Irene Brustad]

louiskaty2, on Jun 30 2008, 10:20 PM, said:

I thought the 'Borg Kids' were generally disliked by all.

Well, I didn't like them at all....
I loved the Borg ep. and I liked Seven of Nine, not because she looked good, but because she made the show more interesting.
I think I have mentioned it before, but when you come from a country like Norway, I guess you have a different standard for what is considered a beautiful blonde

This post has been edited by Irene Brustad: 01 July 2008 - 07:29 AM

[Caprica6]

Melvin, on Jun 30 2008, 10:00 PM, said:

I say they weren't overused; in fact, I love the Borg episodes. It's just, in TNG, it was like, "Borg cube, oh no!" and in Voyager it was like, "Three Borg cubes? Well, we can handle it." So they were kind of mishandled, like shinkai said.

that's not it at all. Whenever they saw Borg, they pooped their pants like everyone else.

And besides, since the Borg encounters on TNG, time has passed, technology has advanced, more was learned about the Borg. So yes, maybe Voyager was a little more effective in their dealins with the Borg than TNG was. But would you have expected them not to be? That would be like a modern day army going up against a Civil War era army and not having learned anything new since then

[CaptainJohn]

I don't think so. They were in Borg space. It would be dumb not to use them.

[Radardog]

Caprica6, on Jul 1 2008, 06:34 AM, said:

that's not it at all. Whenever they saw Borg, they pooped their pants like everyone else.

And besides, since the Borg encounters on TNG, time has passed, technology has advanced, more was learned about the Borg. So yes, maybe Voyager was a little more effective in their dealins with the Borg than TNG was. But would you have expected them not to be? That would be like a modern day army going up against a Civil War era army and not having learned anything new since then

Er... dude, you might have missed the part where a single Borg cube took out 39 ships at the Battle of Wolf 359, some a heck of a lot bigger and meaner than Voyager. Plus, they sort of neutered the Borg on Voyager. The Borg on TNG didn't ask questions. They showed up, they kicked ass, they had a plan and carried it out swiftly. Their efficiency was so good, there was no way to keep up with them. In fact, the Enterprise escaped their first meeting with the Borg only by the hand of Q, then their second meeting would surely have ended with the obliteration of the entire Federation if it weren't for Data interfacing with Locutus and giving the Borg a sleep command, allowing the Enterprise-D to blow it to smithereens.

Now, granted, a handful of ships were able to take out a cube in First Contact, but not without heavy losses, and the Borg had a backup plan for that even.

But the Borg on Voyager could easily be tricked, dissuaded and apparently little old Voyager had enough firepower to be considered a threat.

What made the Borg great was that they were cold and heartless and more or less faceless. The Borg Queen added a bit of seduction for Data and Picard, but Voyager took all of those aspects and made them pointless.

And don't get me started on that Enterprise episode. Grrrr...

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

I agree that the Borg were so overused that they were becoming a bit of a Trek cliche (a bit like the Klingons IMO), but I liked the idea of Unimatrix Zero. Even though the Borg were introduced to us as cold, calculating machines that used body parts but sucked the humanity out of every host they invaded, that humanity still had to go somewhere, and I really don't think that there would have been so much mileage in the Borg as an enemy if they had never been allowed to develop beyond the original concept.

This post has been edited by JulesLuvsShinzon: 15 July 2008 - 09:32 AM