[dominion_ruler]

We've already done a poll on favorite villains, so how about their henchmen. I can't think of any others than the mentioned above, but I liked some of them such as Joaquim, Gallatin and the Viceroy.

Of my favorites, the Viceroy is #1. He was just a badass in Nemesis that made all the other Remans look weak.

I don't think Chang really had a henchman, and one could argue that Soran's was the Duras sisters and the Borg Queen was Data, briefly.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

I voted for the Viceory. I find myself wondering about the nature of his relationship to Shinzon. Who, exactly, was in charge?

Joaquim comes runner up to Shinzon in the cute baddie stakes though!

[dominion_ruler]

JulesLuvsShinzon, on Nov 15 2007, 12:53 PM, said:

I voted for the Viceory. I find myself wondering about the nature of his relationship to Shinzon. Who, exactly, was in charge?

Joaquim comes runner up to Shinzon in the cute baddie stakes though!

As the Viceroy would say "You have no more time for games"

That was indeed an interesting relationship I could not quite figure out.


Note: The guy from TSFS I think is actually named Torin. He is the one who led the group of Klingons aboard the Enterprise before its explosion. Maltz was actually the only Klingon left alive by the end of the movie, who beamed up Kirk and Spock from Genesis. I apologize for the mix-up.

[Melvin]

Viceroy.

dominion_ruler, on Nov 15 2007, 03:17 PM, said:

That was indeed an interesting relationship I could not quite figure out.

I saw him as a kind of father-figure, someone to step in and say to an obsessed Shinzon, "You don't have time for this," or, "Okay, now it's going too far."

[dominion_ruler]

Melvin, on Nov 15 2007, 05:46 PM, said:

Viceroy.



I saw him as a kind of father-figure, someone to step in and say to an obsessed Shinzon, "You don't have time for this," or, "Okay, now it's going too far."

That is exactly how it originated on Remus when Shinzon was a boy. I can see how that pretty much stayed relevant throughout the film.

[rlamkin]

Dr. Evil Is the man!

[dominion_ruler]

rlamkin, on Nov 15 2007, 10:07 PM, said:

Dr. Evil Is the man!

I must have missed the Star Trek movie that he was in

[rlamkin]

dominion_ruler, on Nov 15 2007, 10:30 PM, said:

I must have missed the Star Trek movie that he was in

I think it was in space..does that count?

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

dominion_ruler, on Nov 16 2007, 03:03 AM, said:

That is exactly how it originated on Remus when Shinzon was a boy. I can see how that pretty much stayed relevant throughout the film.

Yes. I sensed a power struggle. Shinzon had the rank but V'Kruk had a major influence over him, and sought to continue that control. Shinzon is emerging as a capable leader in one sense in that he has proved himself as a leader in battle against the Jem Hadar, but his inexperience shows when dealing with a seasoned diplomat such as Picard. Shinzon hasn't the maturity to curb his curiosity when it matters. When Shinzon says "my time and I shall spend it how I choose", he sounds like a peevish brat, and then feels the need to justify his delay to V'Kruk by saying "I was merely curious about him", and then (reluctantly) complies with V'Kruk's wishes and says that he'll return to the Scimitar. One gets the impression that if he stood up to V'Kruk too much, or showed him too much attitude, V'Kruk would rip him a new one.

It would have been interesting to see how that relationship would have continued.

This post has been edited by JulesLuvsShinzon: 16 November 2007 - 08:42 AM

[dominion_ruler]

JulesLuvsShinzon, on Nov 16 2007, 08:41 AM, said:

<br />Yes. I sensed a power struggle. Shinzon had the rank but V'Kruk had a major influence over him, and sought to continue that control. Shinzon is emerging as a capable leader in one sense in that he has proved himself as a leader in battle against the Jem Hadar, but his inexperience shows when dealing with a seasoned diplomat such as Picard. Shinzon hasn't the maturity to curb his curiosity when it matters. When Shinzon says &quot;<i>my</i> time and I shall spend it how I choose&quot;, he sounds like a peevish brat, and then feels the need to justify his delay to V'Kruk by saying &quot;I was merely curious about him&quot;, and then (reluctantly) complies with V'Kruk's wishes and says that he'll return to the <i>Scimitar</i>. One gets the impression that if he stood up to V'Kruk too much, or showed him too much attitude, V'Kruk would rip him a new one.<br /><br />It would have been interesting to see how that relationship would have continued.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I got the feeling that if Shinzon didn't have V'Kruk by his side continually, Shinzon would spend more of his time in a juvenille sense, lathering his feelings for the Counselor (ironically - it was V'Kruk that actually made those fanties come to life - a disspointment that they deleted the turboshaft scene to further explore this violation towards the Counselor).

I think V'Kruk would indeed tear Shinzon in to if he had the opportunity, seeing that Riker's defeat of V'Kruk was mostly pure luck.

Perhaps there is a novel out, but I would be curious to learn more about Shinzon's involvement in the Dominion War.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

dominion_ruler, on Nov 16 2007, 03:35 PM, said:

I got the feeling that if Shinzon didn't have V'Kruk by his side continually, Shinzon would spend more of his time in a juvenille sense, lathering his feelings for the Counselor (ironically - it was V'Kruk that actually made those fanties come to life - a disspointment that they deleted the turboshaft scene to further explore this violation towards the Counselor).

I've spent a long time trying to figure out why Shinzon didn't just abduct Troi (since he could easily abduct Picard) and be done with it if he really wanted to possess her in the physical sense. If I'd been the writer that is what I would have done. There's a big question mark over Shinzon's sexual status. One has to assume that he's a virgin and entirely ignorant on human sexual matters. On the other hand, Shinzon may have had plans for Troi after he had beaten Picard and regained his strength. Maybe V'Kruk wanted to give him a little "taster" as an incentive to stay focussed on their plan and prevent Shinzon from completely losing the plot.

Quote

Perhaps there is a novel out, but I would be curious to learn more about Shinzon's involvement in the Dominion War.

There isn't a novel as such, but if you look out for the compilation of short stories Tales of the Dominion War, the short story Twilight's Wrath deals with Shinzon and his troops foiling a Romulan plot to destroy an embarrassing, secret base on the planet of Goloroth in the Neutral Zone and them into the bargain; stealing the thalaron weapon; finding out who he (Shinzon) is, and escaping to build the Scimitar! It's well worth a read.

[dominion_ruler]

JulesLuvsShinzon, on Nov 16 2007, 11:14 AM, said:

I've spent a long time trying to figure out why Shinzon didn't just abduct Troi (since he could easily abduct Picard) and be done with it if he really wanted to possess her in the physical sense. If I'd been the writer that is what I would have done. There's a big question mark over Shinzon's sexual status. One has to assume that he's a virgin and entirely ignorant on human sexual matters. On the other hand, Shinzon may have had plans for Troi after he had beaten Picard and regained his strength. Maybe V'Kruk wanted to give him a little "taster" as an incentive to stay focussed on their plan and prevent Shinzon from completely losing the plot.

Sounds like you answered your own question. It makes very much sense that the task at hand needed to be dealt with before returning to his sexual exploration of Troi. While on the subject, one thing that puzzled me a little was if V'Kruk did get a little of the action during the scene that is included in the film. We see Shinzon through the glass at first, then above Troi. And in the end, his image changes into what looks like V'Kruk's (its definetly his voice). I'm wondering if maybe while the bond was being broken there at the end, that's what Troi saw since V'Kruk was actually the once initiating the telepathic bond.

JulesLuvsShinzon, on Nov 16 2007, 11:14 AM, said:

There isn't a novel as such, but if you look out for the compilation of short stories Tales of the Dominion War, the short story Twilight's Wrath deals with Shinzon and his troops foiling a Romulan plot to destroy an embarrassing, secret base on the planet of Goloroth in the Neutral Zone and them into the bargain; stealing the thalaron weapon; finding out who he (Shinzon) is, and escaping to build the Scimitar! It's well worth a read.

I must read this. Even better that it tells about how Shinzon got his hand on the weapon and escaped to his hideout to build the Scimitar.

[ensign edwards]

Viceroy.

I do think he was sort of a father figure to Schinzon, and cared for him in a way. I don't think he would have "torn Schinzon a new one" but he was certainly trying to keep him in line.

Quote

I've spent a long time trying to figure out why Shinzon didn't just abduct Troi (since he could easily abduct Picard) and be done with it if he really wanted to possess her in the physical sense. If I'd been the writer that is what I would have done. There's a big question mark over Shinzon's sexual status. One has to assume that he's a virgin and entirely ignorant on human sexual matters. On the other hand, Shinzon may have had plans for Troi after he had beaten Picard and regained his strength. Maybe V'Kruk wanted to give him a little "taster" as an incentive to stay focussed on their plan and prevent Shinzon from completely losing the plot.

That is a good theory. My thinking is that he wanted the control and sense of power that came from showing her he didn't need to abduct her, he could just invade her mind. Personally I think that's even scarier than a physical abduction.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

^^^I thought the other way and regarded Troi's abduction as something that might have been discussed but junked due to risk-aversion. After all rape ~ or attempted rape ~ is a touchy subject, and there's a degree of safety in the notion that our beloved Deanna is experiencing a mental violation that we know to be impossible.

[dominion_ruler]

JulesLuvsShinzon, on Nov 19 2007, 04:25 AM, said:

^^^I thought the other way and regarded Troi's abduction as something that might have been discussed but junked due to risk-aversion. After all rape ~ or attempted rape ~ is a touchy subject, and there's a degree of safety in the notion that our beloved Deanna is experiencing a mental violation that we know to be impossible.

It was certainly nice to see her fight back during the Nebula battle, using her own powers against them.

[jonathan]

tff