[CardassianNinja]

We all know that Picard and Guinan are good friends, or "beyond friendship," whatever that means.

But do we know how the relationship started or why they are so close? I know about Times Arrow, but they seemed to be close before Picard went on that mission (yes, I know it was the past, and Guinan knew about him first). What do we know?

[lt_cmdr_possom]

Guinan said in one episode that she was attrached to bald men, beacause a bald man helped her once. if im right, Picard mustve helped her once. the producers wanted to keep her a mystery, that is why so little is known about her. i dont think she and picard had any kind of relationship, other than patron to barkeep.

[KAllen-bortaS]

The bald man she was referring to was Picard. She said in that episodes that if Picard didn't go on that mission, they would never meet. At that time she couldn't tell him why, because that would/could have changed the "timeline".

She had said in one episode earlier in the seasons that they had "met before" or something to that effect.

[Rhett Coates]

 CardassianNinja, on Mar 8 2006, 08:31 PM, said:

We all know that Picard and Guinan are good friends, or "beyond friendship," whatever that means.

But do we know how the relationship started or why they are so close? I know about Times Arrow, but they seemed to be close before Picard went on that mission (yes, I know it was the past, and Guinan knew about him first). What do we know?

"Engines of Destiny" -- a ST:TNG novel by Gene DeWeese -- is an excellent way to discover more about Guinan's 'unusual abilities' (...which, if we read between the lines in this story, has something to do with the Guardian, on the Time Planet [from TOS]...) and her friendship with Picard. There's yet another novel out there (about Guinan and Picard in his U.S.S. Stargazer years), however I think it was pulled from the shelves due to a printing error (several pages had only HALF of the text on them!). True, novels aren't considered "canon," however it is a great place to try and figure out WHY thier friendship is so deep. INSIGHT is always good to read up on, and Pocket Books is as good a place as any to start.

[Nickolov]

 lt_cmdr_possom, on Mar 9 2006, 12:47 PM, said:

Guinan said in one episode that she was attrached to bald men, beacause a bald man helped her once. if im right, Picard mustve helped her once. the producers wanted to keep her a mystery, that is why so little is known about her. i dont think she and picard had any kind of relationship, other than patron to barkeep.

I remember Guinan saying this. And I totally agree with your post.

[wildcard1377]

^^Rhett, the novel you're talking about was this:

Quote

Oblivion
(Star Trek: Stargazer)
By Michael Jan Friedman
Publication Date: 09/2003

Description
In 1893 a time-traveling Jean-Luc Picard encountered a long-lived alien named Guinan, who was posing as a human to learn Earth's customs. During this "first encounter," Picard saved Guinan's life, a favor she would never forget.

Five centuries later, Captain Picard, now commander of the Starship Enterprise â„¢, brought Guinan aboard as the ship's "bartender." The hope was that her wisdom and inner peace would provide a moral grounding for Picard's crew as they experienced the dangers of space.

Because he hadn't yet made his trip through time, Picard had no knowledge of his nineteenth-century meeting with Guinan.

But he did remember a different first encounter with the mysterious El-Aurian -- a tumultuous adventure in which Picard and Guinan would risk their lives in a maze of interplanetary intrigue, with the future of the known universe at stake.

This is the story of that fateful meeting, and of a Guinan very different from the woman we think we know -- a person wracked by pain and longing, shaken to the roots of her soul.

A Guinan who yearns for oblivion.

I hadn't heard about the misprint...it's possible, but I highly doubt pocketbooks would have pulled it off the shelves and not republished it correctly. Some stores may still have a copy of it (I think one of my local haunts does in fact...but I've yet to read this novel).

[Rhett Coates]

 wildcard1377, on Mar 13 2006, 02:54 AM, said:

^^Rhett, the novel you're talking about was this:
I hadn't heard about the misprint...it's possible, but I highly doubt pocketbooks would have pulled it off the shelves and not republished it correctly. Some stores may still have a copy of it (I think one of my local haunts does in fact...but I've yet to read this novel).

Yeap. I noticed that right off the bat -- and then went to SEVERAL book stores in eastern Virginia to check on every single copy of that particular ST novel that I could find: Barnes & Nobel and others: EVERY SINGLE COPY in every store had the exact same mis-print. They were TWO (2) pages that had about 1/3 of the left-hand side of the entire page (!!) simply blank. It was, therefore, IMPOSSIBLE to read the passages on those pages. If memory serves (--as Spock might say--) the printing errors were in the 80- or 90- PAGE range. (That means, page 80-something and/or 90-something.....)

The store managers pulled all copies (once they'd checked to be sure I was right): YES, the pages were printed WRONG, and the books, therefore, didn't sell. The store managers refused to sell "damaged" merchandise (their description of the books in question).

I hope they have since corrected the error, as I WANT to read that novel!

[Rhett Coates]

 Rhett Coates, on Mar 13 2006, 03:50 PM, said:

Yeap. I noticed that right off the bat -- and then went to SEVERAL book stores in eastern Virginia to check on every single copy of that particular ST novel that I could find: Barnes & Nobel and others: EVERY SINGLE COPY in every store had the exact same mis-print. They were TWO (2) pages that had about 1/3 of the left-hand side of the entire page (!!) simply blank. It was, therefore, IMPOSSIBLE to read the passages on those pages. If memory serves (--as Spock might say--) the printing errors were in the 80- or 90- PAGE range. (That means, page 80-something and/or 90-something.....)

The store managers pulled all copies (once they'd checked to be sure I was right): YES, the pages were printed WRONG, and the books, therefore, didn't sell. The store managers refused to sell "damaged" merchandise (their description of the books in question).

I hope they have since corrected the error, as I WANT to read that novel!

Evidently, somebody at Pocket Books got the message. I found another copy of the book in a Barnes & Nobel 2 weeks ago, and the pages were printed correctly. I purchased the book, and just finished reading it. BRAVO! And guess what? DENOBULANS are mentioned in it.......

[Captain Braxton]

i havent had the pleasure of reading those yet but i will, i read a ST book a Day, ive got like 60 books but i dont have them all, i want to have a full collection.




Braxton

[Canadian Mind]

 Rhett Coates, on Mar 13 2006, 12:50 PM, said:

Yeap. I noticed that right off the bat -- and then went to SEVERAL book stores in eastern Virginia to check on every single copy of that particular ST novel that I could find: Barnes & Nobel and others: EVERY SINGLE COPY in every store had the exact same mis-print. They were TWO (2) pages that had about 1/3 of the left-hand side of the entire page (!!) simply blank. It was, therefore, IMPOSSIBLE to read the passages on those pages. If memory serves (--as Spock might say--) the printing errors were in the 80- or 90- PAGE range. (That means, page 80-something and/or 90-something.....)

The store managers pulled all copies (once they'd checked to be sure I was right): YES, the pages were printed WRONG, and the books, therefore, didn't sell. The store managers refused to sell "damaged" merchandise (their description of the books in question).

I hope they have since corrected the error, as I WANT to read that novel!

i still have my copy somewhere. there was a printing error but it wasn't very big... like, half a letter or two basically.

[Captain Braxton]

i just orded $40 worht of 1.00 books of Amazon.com, man i hate spending money but hey ive gotta have my trek, i do alot of reading at my job so.




Braxton

[Rhett Coates]

 Canadian Mind, on Apr 15 2006, 04:06 PM, said:

i still have my copy somewhere. there was a printing error but it wasn't very big... like, half a letter or two basically.

That's right -- but IT'S BEEN CORRECTED. (The error was 1/2 page of text missing, on 2 different pages -- and that was the right- or left-hand HALF of the page, making it impossible to read those two pages.) I went to a local Barnes & Nobel and found a copy that was intact, and purhased it on the spot. It was a good read, and showed how Guinan and Picard first "met" (--during his Captaincy of the USS Stargazer--) and how Picard would "remember" her LONG AFTER the event in San Francisco in the late 1800's. It was nice to see that one reference to Denobulans in one place; a nice little nod to Dr. Phlox's people. Not to mention, it was interesting to see how Guinan balanced her desire to tell him that they had met before, while know she couldn't -- and finally coming to peace within herself after having been "ripped" out of the Nexus by the Enterprise-B, about 70 years prior. (Picard was the catalyst in that effort, which is, according to this story, why they're so close.)

[Captain Braxton]

wonder if any of those are worth anything

[dominion_ruler]

I don't know much about Picard and Guinan but just had to point out the fine performance in Yesterday's Enterprise. Such great acting and chemistry between them!

[Allee]

 lt_cmdr_possom, on Mar 9 2006, 06:47 AM, said:

i dont think she and picard had any kind of relationship, other than patron to barkeep.

Okay, I'm replying to this one 3 years late, but. . .

just make a note of where Picard positions his hand on Guinan, when they are in that cave in San Francisco, and the way she looks at him afterward!

[Commander Lazar]

I read the Star trek TNG comic book called ,,The last generation'' and in it Picard and Guinan are in a love relationship.

[jonathan]

you know i could never figure out why Picard and Guinan were so close. does anyone know the answer to this mystery? i mean something must have happened to bring them so close together. i mean she was one of his trusted advisers both personally and sometimes professionally. any thoughts?