[Nickolov]

Data's death was a wrong thing to do. Just like Kirk's death. I'm aware of the fact that Nemesis was the last (last or maybe not?!) movie that includes the TNG crew but...why? Why did they have to kill him...

What are your thoughts on Data's death?

[Captain_Hair]

I don't like how it was done, but this was one of Brent Spiner's requests. He simply could not play the ageless android part anymore. But... they did leave the door open with B4.

[trek_dude]

i agree it was sad but then it was the sort of thing that data was alwat prepared to do, sacafice himself to save the ship.

[Nickolov]

Captain Hair, you're right, but, B4 must be played by Spiner too. :-)

[Shlomi of Vulcan]

Wrong Thing? Yes and No. No, because even Spiner admits that he is getting a bit long-in-the-tooth to be playing an ageless android. Yes, because they kept B4, which is nothing more than another android played by Spiner that looks like an aging Data but without the intellectual and emotional capacity of his former brother.

If there is to be another TNG movie with the original cast, I don't see how Spiner can pull it off....and more importantly neither does Spiner.

[WeatherManNX01]

If you watch the special features to Nemesis Spiner says that they written themselves into a corner when writing the story. Someone had to die, and it was either going to be Data or Picard. So they went with Data. And given that Spiner's age was showing through the makeup they killed Data.

And personally I think it's Data's death that makes the "family" theme (of which Baird heavily cut from the final movie ) more poignant (for lack of a better word). Nemesis is my favorite movie.

[Rakulp]

Greetings,

I have never been so upset with Star Trek as I was with this death. I can appreciate how Father Time and Data conflict, but since this was apparently the last movie to star the TNG crew, there was no reason to kill him. Introducing B4 was equally stupid IMO. Now...if they wanted to build the interaction between Data and B4 up to the point where it was B4 who sacrificed himself, so that Data would survive...THAT would have been better!

I could accept Kirk's death easier for some reason...perhaps it's because the movie was the transition from the original crew to TNG crew...while Nemesis was just a death.

There have been a lot of scenarios to bring back Kirk...and I really think that if they approached the prospect, you'd see a lot of fans start getting excited about Star Trek again, especially if it became a pivotal point of a multi-movie scenario covering EVERY Star Trek franchise!

...I can dream, can't I?

Rakulp
"Honor Above All"

[Captain_Hair]

 Rakulp, on Jan 9 2006, 10:58 AM, said:

There have been a lot of scenarios to bring back Kirk...and I really think that if they approached the prospect, you'd see a lot of fans start getting excited about Star Trek again, especially if it became a pivotal point of a multi-movie scenario covering EVERY Star Trek franchise!

...I can dream, can't I?

Dream away, but the thing is Kirk died. The was still a body that could be resurrected. Data, on the other hand, was atomized.

[Rakulp]

 Captain Hair, on Jan 9 2006, 11:47 AM, said:

Dream away, but the thing is Kirk died. The was still a body that could be resurrected. Data, on the other hand, was atomized.

Greetings,

Pleh, atoms, schmatoms...Q could sneeze and create a million Data's!



Rakulp
"Honor Above All"

[MoldySpore]

 Shlomi of Vulcan, on Jan 9 2006, 08:43 AM, said:

Wrong Thing? Yes and No. No, because even Spiner admits that he is getting a bit long-in-the-tooth to be playing an ageless android. Yes, because they kept B4, which is nothing more than another android played by Spiner that looks like an aging Data but without the intellectual and emotional capacity of his former brother.

If there is to be another TNG movie with the original cast, I don't see how Spiner can pull it off....and more importantly neither does Spiner.

Well, all they would have to do is add a little grey hair (or whatever other natural age-related things Spiner bring to the table) and have Data be like "well, I added a little grey hair and some wrinkles (or whatever) so that I feel more human. I have been in operation for ___years, I felt it was time to alter my appearance to look more like the crew that I have been with"

It really wouldnt be any harder than that. 1 line of dialogue.

They already made Data look "older" in the final episode of TNG. I believe he says something about the grey hair, saying it adds a hint of "wisdom" to his appearance, or something along those lines.

No, Spiner isn't the problem here, ESPECIALLY because his character requires full face paint. A new TNG movie would require Frakes and Marina Sirtus to get back in shape. To be honest, their appearance in the Enterprise finale was far from flattering, they looked NOTHING like they did in Nemesis, let alone the original Pegasus episode. Patrick Stewart has looked the same for the last 20 years. He could play Picard when he is 90 and i bet he would look the same.

 Rakulp, on Jan 9 2006, 12:41 PM, said:

Greetings,

Pleh, atoms, schmatoms...Q could sneeze and create a million Data's!



Rakulp
"Honor Above All"

Now THAT is an interesting premise. Q has yet to be in anything outside of series, yet he has been featured in many episodes on many series (TNG and Voyager, any else?). Q is a very cool idea. Have Picard ask for a favor from Q, to bring back Data (because Picard is very depressed that Data sacrificed himself for him) and then go from there. I mean, Q pretty much owes Picard for all the crap he's put the Enterprise crew through anyway.

[Shodar]

I was glad they killed him. Data hasn't been good since TNG S6. He and/or the writers let him get too emotional and sappy al the time

[RogueEntity]

I wonder if ILM have heard of a little thing called CGI. I mean if they can come up with photo-realistic 3D dragons for Reign of Fire, I am sure they could have created a completly CG data using Motion Capture.

[MoldySpore]

 Sho'Dar, on Jan 9 2006, 01:47 PM, said:

I was glad they killed him. Data hasn't been good since TNG S6. He and/or the writers let him get too emotional and sappy al the time

Well, that is kind of a short sighted, silly statement. Data's whole thing was that he was trying to become more human. He didn't incorporate the emotion chip until Star Trek: Generations. Saying he wasn't good anymore becuase he was getting emotional is kind of defeating all the character development put into Data. Data was great until the last second he was on screen in Nemesis. In fact, Data was the only reason I don't come out and say Nemesis was bad like most other ST fans.

[Shodar]

 MoldySpore, on Jan 9 2006, 10:53 AM, said:

Well, that is kind of a short sighted, silly statement. Data's whole thing was that he was trying to become more human. He didn't incorporate the emotion chip until Star Trek: Generations. Saying he wasn't good anymore becuase he was getting emotional is kind of defeating all the character development put into Data. Data was great until the last second he was on screen in Nemesis. In fact, Data was the only reason I don't come out and say Nemesis was bad like most other ST fans.

Sorry, I just didn't like data and it irritated me that they spent so much time on him at the expense of developing other characters. I also fail to see how my personal likes can be deemed "silly" or "shortsighted"

[megabyte]

 Rakulp, on Jan 9 2006, 04:58 PM, said:

Greetings,

I have never been so upset with Star Trek as I was with this death. I can appreciate how Father Time and Data conflict, but since this was apparently the last movie to star the TNG crew, there was no reason to kill him. Introducing B4 was equally stupid IMO. Now...if they wanted to build the interaction between Data and B4 up to the point where it was B4 who sacrificed himself, so that Data would survive...THAT would have been better!

I could accept Kirk's death easier for some reason...perhaps it's because the movie was the transition from the original crew to TNG crew...while Nemesis was just a death.

There have been a lot of scenarios to bring back Kirk...and I really think that if they approached the prospect, you'd see a lot of fans start getting excited about Star Trek again, especially if it became a pivotal point of a multi-movie scenario covering EVERY Star Trek franchise!

...I can dream, can't I?

Rakulp
"Honor Above All"

Very good dream!

 MoldySpore, on Jan 9 2006, 07:35 PM, said:

Well, all they would have to do is add a little grey hair (or whatever other natural age-related things Spiner bring to the table) and have Data be like "well, I added a little grey hair and some wrinkles (or whatever) so that I feel more human. I have been in operation for ___years, I felt it was time to alter my appearance to look more like the crew that I have been with"

It really wouldnt be any harder than that. 1 line of dialogue.

They already made Data look "older" in the final episode of TNG. I believe he says something about the grey hair, saying it adds a hint of "wisdom" to his appearance, or something along those lines.

No, Spiner isn't the problem here, ESPECIALLY because his character requires full face paint. A new TNG movie would require Frakes and Marina Sirtus to get back in shape. To be honest, their appearance in the Enterprise finale was far from flattering, they looked NOTHING like they did in Nemesis, let alone the original Pegasus episode. Patrick Stewart has looked the same for the last 20 years. He could play Picard when he is 90 and i bet he would look the same.
Now THAT is an interesting premise. Q has yet to be in anything outside of series, yet he has been featured in many episodes on many series (TNG and Voyager, any else?). Q is a very cool idea. Have Picard ask for a favor from Q, to bring back Data (because Picard is very depressed that Data sacrificed himself for him) and then go from there. I mean, Q pretty much owes Picard for all the crap he's put the Enterprise crew through anyway.

Q owes Data for saving his miserable self centered life. Q should bring him back, yes. :
Another thought is Data's face is artificial it could be replace at his whim. Some other actor could portray him. But I bet, (knowing actors), they would want to change his character to fit the new actors likes.

[WeatherManNX01]

 rogue-entity, on Jan 9 2006, 01:48 PM, said:

I wonder if ILM have heard of a little thing called CGI. I mean if they can come up with photo-realistic 3D dragons for Reign of Fire, I am sure they could have created a completly CG data using Motion Capture.

ILM no longer does FX for Star Trek. The FX for Nemesis were done by Eden FX. I know that wasn't the point of your post, but I just thought I'd point that out. And while I'm sure that a CG Data can be done, it just wouldn't be the same, in my opinion.

[trek_dude]

 rogue-entity, on Jan 9 2006, 06:48 PM, said:

I wonder if ILM have heard of a little thing called CGI. I mean if they can come up with photo-realistic 3D dragons for Reign of Fire, I am sure they could have created a completly CG data using Motion Capture.

I don't think a cgi Data would have worked

[WeatherManNX01]

 trek_dude, on Jan 9 2006, 05:05 PM, said:

I don't think a cgi Data would have worked

Yeah, the reason that Jar-Jar Binks, Xindi Insectoids and Aquatics, and the Gorn worked is the fact that they are alien enough for it not to matter. Data is a replica of a human, which I don't think would work quite as well, especially in the movement department. And to CG a Data for an entire film would likely be incredibly expensive to boot.

[JoannaPoe]

I felt bad when they killed Data, he's my favorite character out of all Trek, but I'm not complaining; there's only so much they can do with a single character's story arc, and what they did to end Data's felt right. A whole series or group of films where none of the main characters die feels cheap somehow, fake, because the fact is people die. I'm open to books and such bringing Data back via B4 or whatever. His best friend is an engineer after all, but I don't think he should appear on screen played by anyone other than Brent Spiner, not even a CGI.