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#41 Trekker

 

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 01:30 AM

I am suprised that Picard or another captain would have realized what Archer talked about in his log, but was made after those series were finished so that explained that
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#42 marty

 

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 11:09 AM

The one think I never understood was why Berman choose to have a series about a ship and a crew that were never discussed before by any Trek series or movie. If he was going to do a prequel, why not do one on the first Captain of the Enterprise, Robert April? He could've used the basic theme there that he used in Enterprise (a young niave crew that had no transporter, phase pistols, not much experience in space, etc.,). It would've worked.

Oh well... it's all irrelevant now.

#43 JulesLuvsShinzon

 

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 05:33 AM

I have to say that I love FC! To me, it's nigh-on the perfect Star Trek movie.

Yeah, if this movie were an ocean-going liner, it would sink right outside of port because it has that many plotholes, but then I am happy to overlook them because ~ damn it ~ FC was just too damn enjoyable! It has so many merits, not to mention stonking supporting performances from James Cromwell, Alfre Woodard and Alice Krige!

I just love seeing Picard totally losing his rag while Lilly Sloane keeps her calm and then says "you broke your little ships"! What a slamdunker!

Mostly I love FC because it's so darn subversive ~ both to TNG and to Roddenberry's vision. We get to see Picard so riled up he can barely think straight. He loses the plot; he insults Worf; he has a screaming match...outstanding! Seeing that's on a par with seeing Kirk screw-up in TWOK because he ignored Saavik's timely reminder to raise shields and "KKHHAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!"

And it was just so great seeing how reverentially the TNG crew treated Cochrane because they all believed in the reverse-engineered myth that Cochrane was some kind of hero and shining beacon, when he turns out to be a genius, but a self-serving, womanising drunk one! There's a real subtle message in that too for anyone who never entirely bought the Trek assertion that mankind has somehow moved beyond greed because hunger and needs have been satisfied. That LaForge and Barclay cosy up to Cochrane and let slip how revered he is in their time (much to Cochrane's bemusement) just demonstrates how much late 21st and 22nd century historians may have tweaked history to make mankind seem (and feel) better than it is, and when you accept that, then how much of a role did the Vulcans play in this? By the 24th century, is history itself so-glossed over that ~ dare I say it? ~ people no longer learn about Slavery and the Holocaust? And by doing that, do people become so unaware of their own true selfish potential, that it becomes dangerous because it is denied?

I think lush old Cochrane is the best dramatic reversal in the whole thing, because not only do the TNG crew have to grapple with the Borg, but they have to grapple with their hero with the slipped halo. It's very, very true that all of Man's best technological advances have come out of desperate times, and I think FC pays a certain amount of homage to Cold War Space Race and that one-time Nazi scientists put Americans on the Moon.

And seeing Troi drunk was priceless!

But before my enthusiasm runs too far away with me: here's the big plothole for me........

Even allowing for the fact that the TNG crew may have helped to recover Cochrane's ship after its warp flight...how the hell would that ship have gotten back to earth without any kind of landing gear...or a splashdown in the ocean? I mean, nuclear missiles aren't exactly designed to land softly in one piece anywhere are they?! :naughty3dg:

Edited by JulesLuvsShinzon, 04 January 2007 - 05:40 AM.


#44 marty

 

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 04:39 PM

Even allowing for the fact that the TNG crew may have helped to recover Cochrane's ship after its warp flight...how the hell would that ship have gotten back to earth without any kind of landing gear...or a splashdown in the ocean? I mean, nuclear missiles aren't exactly designed to land softly in one piece anywhere are they?! :naughty3dg:

Oh crap! I never even picked up on that. :lol: As usual, you are absolutely correct! :lol:

#45 Radardog

 

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 07:28 PM

Oh crap! I never even picked up on that. :lol: As usual, you are absolutely correct! :lol:


They had seatbelts...:)

Edited by Radardog, 12 January 2007 - 07:29 PM.

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#46 JulesLuvsShinzon

 

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 06:58 AM

^^^Not much use without landing gear though!

Y'see ~ uber-nerd that I am ~ I've given this one a great deal of thought: we know that the Pheonix is recovered because Picard talks about having seen that very ship in the Smithsonian, but here's the killer, did....

A: The Enterprise capture the Pheonix in a tractor beam when it fell out of warp (remember the warp flight was very short) and 'beam' it back to Earth ~ if that didn't go against the Prime Directive that is?

B: Did the Pheonix return to the gravittational influence of Earth and 'splashdown' in the ocean like the old Apollo craft? And if so, how did these half-stoned apocalypse survivors in central Montana have the werewithal to recover the ship and the passengers alive?

C: Did Cochrane incorporate landing gear in to the missile body as well as those fold-out warp nacelles?

D: Apart from being buckled into their seats ~ which, along with the cockpit, would never have been part of the original missile ~ were they actually ejector seats that allowed the passengers to eject once safely back inside Earth's atmosphere? The ship recovered later and maybe rebuilt? But then again, how was Cochrane able to obtain the necessary materials to protect the hull from superheating and burn-up on re-entry?

I know, I am a nerd, but it still bugs the hell outa me! :unsure:

#47 marty

 

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 01:15 PM

^^
It should bug the hell out of you. You see that's the problem with many viewers today, they just simply overlook these type of huge blunders. I mean, it's fine to suspend disbelief, but in cases like this, I mean really....

#48 Nizaril

 

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 10:49 AM

I've read most of this thread and without scanning through any further I must toss some food for thought out there for all of you.

There is the "on-screen dialogue" and then there is the "off-screen dialogue". Things you hear and things you don't hear. We "all" must use our own rich imaginations to fill in the blanks with do-able and plausible content. Critics normally try and tear apart things and beat it down while people with a decent imagination can see beyond the superficial inconcistency and dream up ways that things could happen instead of hammering away on how stupid something is and why it "couldn't" have happened. Don't get me wrong guys ...I'm not ragging on anyone for pointing out what they perceive as script, canon or any other type issues but I am asking that you all take time to think about what might be left to our imagination.

I usually give too much credit to people and assume them will figure something out on their own and so I don't give people long drawn out explanations but you would probably be surprised at how often that comes back to haunt me when people with no apparent common sense still can't seem to connect the dots.

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#49 Beast Boy

 

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 04:36 AM

This movie-my were love "Star Trek" movie. Love episodes in movie: battle in sector 001, battle on Enterprise defflector and fly warp ship Phoenix. I,m heard that there is remastered version this movie.This true?

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#50 Chief Engineer Scott

 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 04:10 PM

Something that no one has mentioned...how did they used the main deflector after they broke off the huge dish part of it and Worf blasted it to bits...
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#51 mike3775

 

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 02:54 PM

^^^Not much use without landing gear though!

Y'see ~ uber-nerd that I am ~ I've given this one a great deal of thought: we know that the Pheonix is recovered because Picard talks about having seen that very ship in the Smithsonian, but here's the killer, did....

A: The Enterprise capture the Pheonix in a tractor beam when it fell out of warp (remember the warp flight was very short) and 'beam' it back to Earth ~ if that didn't go against the Prime Directive that is?

B: Did the Pheonix return to the gravittational influence of Earth and 'splashdown' in the ocean like the old Apollo craft? And if so, how did these half-stoned apocalypse survivors in central Montana have the werewithal to recover the ship and the passengers alive?

C: Did Cochrane incorporate landing gear in to the missile body as well as those fold-out warp nacelles?

D: Apart from being buckled into their seats ~ which, along with the cockpit, would never have been part of the original missile ~ were they actually ejector seats that allowed the passengers to eject once safely back inside Earth's atmosphere? The ship recovered later and maybe rebuilt? But then again, how was Cochrane able to obtain the necessary materials to protect the hull from superheating and burn-up on re-entry?

I know, I am a nerd, but it still bugs the hell outa me! :unsure:


Well to be fair, we never saw the entire ship either, while in space or on Earth. A missile also never had a cockpit installed either, yet they somehow managed to attach on to the missile. If the Nacelles came out like they did, its a fair assumption to think there was landing gear and some sort of heat shield(like what the Space Shuttles have) on the underside of the Phoenix

As far as a scientist being a drunk not being possible, I can tell you I know several famous surgeons, doctors, and sports athletes who are fall down drunks when they are not working on their professions.

As far as Cochrane being like that, its been widely known that Ty Cobb was a total POS in his time, yet he is still revered by major league baseball, same with Ted Williams, and even Mickey Mantle. But these days, those types of people would not be revered in the future due to the 24/7 news cycle now. But in the future, if technology is advanced but fragmented due to civil strife(like FC was) it is possible for someone to do what Cochran did and not have it be known he was a drunkard, except by the ones who knew him, and he may have cleaned his act up after meeting the Vulcans
"To the best crew any captain ever had. This may be the last time we're all together. But no matter what the future holds, no matter how far we travel, a part of us... a very important part, will always remain here, on Deep Space 9." - Benjamin Sisko, what we leave behind

#52 maneth

 

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 03:06 AM

First Contact is still my favorite Trek movie, despite its Borg inconsistencies.


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#53 Chief Cottingham

 

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 09:42 PM

Probably the best Star Trek movie ever.



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