[Radardog]

JulesLuvsShinzon, on 20 May 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

Hi Kirok!

It's been so quiet around here that I sort of gave up dropping by and then I saw Radardog was back and I thought I throw in a few cents of my own - not that things are anything like as lively as they were three years ago - or during the four years from the cancellation of Enterprise and the release of Star Trek 2009, and that I find odd and vaguely disheartening. It seems as though the summer blockbuster market has matured and left the franchise behind once again.

I've been amazed that Bad Robot seems to have dropped the ball on this one and didn't capitalise of the relative success of the last film - there should have been a sequel out this summer at the very latest but it seems the producers got hung-up or overcommitted in producing other projects. Progress on a sequel seems to have faltered in its early stages. It's inproduction now and that's great, but I wonder if the new-won fans from the last film won't have moved on and forgotten about the movie they liked three years ago, and in the meantime the really big superhero franchises have taken off in an even bigger way than before.

As for Khan: my first response when I heard the rumours was definitely "meh" and some frustration that the creation of the alternative "Abramsverse" might simply default into lazy remake territory and lame reinvention of something that work very well the first time around. I am somewhat mollified by the casting of Cumberbatch because he is a huge property right now with high value stock he'll want to protect, therefore the script has to be - just has to be - something that has convinced him he needs to be a part of this project. He has successfully made over Sherlock Holmes in his own image that pleases even diehard Sherlock fans like me because his performance seems to understand that it is the essence of an iconic character that must survive, and pulling that off means that even the most iconic characters can be moved into other timescales and adventures. In some respects, screenwriters are getting very good at this and there is no reason why Khan can't be rebooted in the new timeline - as long as the new adventure is worthwhile and that central tension between Kirk and Khan is kept in place.

I think that Kirok is correct, there is room within a franchise for two actors to interpret an iconic character in very different ways, and the example of the Riddler is a good one in this context. Bond has been made over a few times but has always remained essentially Bond. I think this type of reinterpretation works well with edgy characters or villains.

As of my last posting, I've watched the entirety of the BBC's Sherlock series and I will have to say that if there's someone out there who I feel COULD play Khan, Cumberbatch is probably near the top of my list. I remember back when we had our discussion about casting Uhura as a true African woman, and I can see your point of view, but still feel that it wasn't a misstep as an African woman still played Uhura... just maybe not as representative as it could have been. I do think your point is valid though.

I do regret that an Indian wasn't even considered, however. Khan southeast Asian leanings, in my opinion, deserve at least a physical representation if nothing else, but hey, Brent Spiner isn't Indian either and Dr. Noonien Soongh sure sounds like a Southeast Asian name. Whatever. I'm willing to go along with the idea that Khan doesn't have to be a specific race. And Benedict Cumberbatch could pretty much act out the phonebook right now and I'd be riveted to my chair, so if he is Khan, my disappointment will be kept at a minimum and I will embrace his interpretation.

I do maintain my argument that Abrams should be at least trying to bring something new to the table. Something more than an angry Romulan from the future and endangered Vulcans, anyway.

And I still have a strong dislike of Orci and Kurtzman.

Good to hear from you, Jules and Edwards. Been a while.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

Radardog, on 23 May 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

As of my last posting, I've watched the entirety of the BBC's Sherlock series and I will have to say that if there's someone out there who I feel COULD play Khan, Cumberbatch is probably near the top of my list. I remember back when we had our discussion about casting Uhura as a true African woman, and I can see your point of view, but still feel that it wasn't a misstep as an African woman still played Uhura... just maybe not as representative as it could have been. I do think your point is valid though.

Thanks Radardog! It's something that I am a little OCD about because of the way in which Hollywood likes to present only one kind of vision of women originating from Africa - mostly quite light-skinned, hair extensions and pretty much in that cookie-cutter R&B mould. I was - and remain - quite disappointed in Saldana being cast as Uhura (she was better in Avatar, although her blue make-up and big tail did most of the acting!) and I really think Uhura needs to be shown doing an actual job of work on the Enterprise bridge before I'll take that character seriously again.

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I do regret that an Indian wasn't even considered, however. Khan southeast Asian leanings, in my opinion, deserve at least a physical representation if nothing else, but hey, Brent Spiner isn't Indian either and Dr. Noonien Soongh sure sounds like a Southeast Asian name. Whatever. I'm willing to go along with the idea that Khan doesn't have to be a specific race.

Ultimately, I feel the way you do about this. I think we'll have to forgive the casting of a Mexican actor as Khan since the role was cast in the 1960s when the studios were perhaps less able to cast ethnic actors and probably would have given much thought to authentic ethnicity in any case. Montalban did do a great job as the charismatic prince in Space Seed so I guess it was a no-brainer to cast him again in the TWOK - he looked good and was mesmerising in that role, but still, yeah, we are all familiar with Bollywood now and it begs the question as to why the producers didn't look to Delhi if this movie really IS going to feature Khan. It's not even as though Bollywood actors haven't crossed over into Hollywood and haven't gained some love and attention in Western film projects before.

As for Dr. Noonien Soongh - well, I can't get my head around that one at all! I suppose we're to focus more upon the notion that Soongh (clearly created as an after thought once Data had taken off as a well-liked character) that he had created his androids in his own image and that image was by that time firmly established as the face of Brent Spiner! But I still don't know why they thought of using a name that would make us think "Asian" - they didn't need to do that and it makes me scratch my head!

Then again, they cast a Korean as a Japanese officer, a Chinese man as a Korean and a Canadian as a Scot, and on and on and on - so who knows?

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And Benedict Cumberbatch could pretty much act out the phonebook right now and I'd be riveted to my chair, so if he is Khan, my disappointment will be kept at a minimum and I will embrace his interpretation.

Glad to see that you're acquainted with his Sherlock! As an actor he's very good at distilling an iconic character down to it's pure essence and then taking it to new places. I've seen him in loads of things - including a diffident and slightly nerdy foil to Tom Hardy's Stuart Shorter in Stuart: A Life Backwards, he's a real chameleon, so if he's Khan then the character will be in good hands!

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I do maintain my argument that Abrams should be at least trying to bring something new to the table. Something more than an angry Romulan from the future and endangered Vulcans, anyway.

You and me both!

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And I still have a strong dislike of Orci and Kurtzman.

Absolutely! I believe I said, back in the day, that whenever I read an interview given by those two it did not inspire me with confidence because they sound like two surf boys eager to get back to the beach and catch a wave.

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Good to hear from you, Jules and Edwards. Been a while.

Yes, it has! I occasionally check in here and was wondering where did all those great conversations go? Glad we're back and parlaying once more - goodness knows, at this point in time, the franchise needs all the help and enthusiasm it can get, and talk generates anticpation!

[Fan Producer]

Soong would be a Chinese name - consider the book, "The Soong Dynasty", about a very powerful family during the time of Chiang Kai Shek.

[Radardog]

I just read an interview with Simon Pegg. He said that Cumberbatch isn't playing Khan and that Khan isn't the villain of the film. I don't know whether that's a definitive "There's no Khan," but it's definitely a step in the right direction.

Allow me to perform the Dance of Joy.

[Bill]

Interesting take on the uniforms.

[ensign edwards]

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And I still have a strong dislike of Orci and Kurtzman.

My personal opinion is that they need to be sealed in a vault beneath the earth and never be let near a movie script again.

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Good to hear from you, Jules and Edwards. Been a while.

I was about to say the same. Both of you have occasionally infuriated me in the past, but that just shows that you were worthy debate opponents. Things were certainly never dull during our old debates.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

Radardog, on 29 May 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

I just read an interview with Simon Pegg. He said that Cumberbatch isn't playing Khan and that Khan isn't the villain of the film. I don't know whether that's a definitive "There's no Khan," but it's definitely a step in the right direction.

Allow me to perform the Dance of Joy.

I think that is quite positive - clearly there is still a villain.

ensign edwards, on 01 June 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

My personal opinion is that they need to be sealed in a vault beneath the earth and never be let near a movie script again.

Harsh, Dude, Harsh ... but fair!

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I was about to say the same. Both of you have occasionally infuriated me in the past, but that just shows that you were worthy debate opponents. Things were certainly never dull during our old debates.

Let the good times roll again!! I am sure there will be plenty more things to parlay and argue about before we get into the theatres! Qu'apla!

Bill, on 30 May 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

Interesting take on the uniforms.

Personally, I think they're pretty smart - militaristic - but smart. Better than the TNG dress uniforms anyway!